AIBU to think that animals can feel fear and pain.

[DJBaggySmalls]

MP's just voted that they are not sentient, and cannot feel emotions or pain.

''British Veterinary Association Senior Vice President Gudrun Ravetz said: "It is extremely concerning a marginal majority of MPs have voted down this seminal clause.''
"...this action undermines the Government’s previous promises the UK will continue to be known for our high standards of animal health and welfare post-Brexit.''

www.plantbasednews.org/post/mps-reject-efforts-eu-animal-sentience-clause-uk-law

Wow

nooka, Julie8008 kaytee87
How is this inflammatory? Do you think the British Veterinary Association is being inflammatory when they express concern? Or the RSPCA?

This isnt about whether fluffy bunnies see themselves as we do. Its about us ditching welfare legislation we've been using for years.

Its about us ditching welfare legislation we've been using for years

Obviously that's the line your pushing. I dont see any reason why our animal welfare laws will be ditched just because we dont declare in law that animals are sentient. That is not what this vote was about, your conflating 2 different things.

Whaaaaaat? Since when could animals not feel pain?

The line I'm pushing - me, the British Veterinary Assc and the RSPCA.

Sentient means being able to percieve or feel things, not being able to percieve ones self.

Animals are sentient.

MPs voted to bin the principle of animal sentience. The government is setting the scene for turning the UK into a centre for animal testing, factory farming and blood sports.
www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2017-11-15a.475.0

Animals can love hate fear and feel pain. I haven't even clicked on the link. If I come across one more idiot today. I swear the whole world will hear me scream

Obviously the BVA and the RSPCA want this but it doesn't make it true, where is the evidence? Animal sentience is not black and white and passing a law does not make it true. And has no bearing on animal welfare.

Paper doll I know conditions now can be bad, especially for intensively farmed animals such as pigs or chickens.
Just how much worse do you think it will get if animals officially "can't feel pain"? Now at least there are minimum standards in abattoirs and factory farms, which tbh are pretty low.
This is all ready for our "marvellous" trade deal with the US, where animal welfare is well down the agenda.

If you want to see how Americans treat animals in their food industry watch Earthlings. It is harrowing.

Thank goodness we’re getting away from EU control eh? Bloody Brussels telling us animals are sentient. We’ll show them. Cannot imagine in any way how this could be exploited in order to make money.
Thin end of the wedge. If the ECHR and Rights of the Child face the same fate it will be a sad day.

Up til now I've been able to say that PETA farming and laboratory videos dont apply to the UK, and aren't filmed here. We haven't tested cosmetics on animals for decades, its just not necessary.

I dont believe we'll keep the Human Rights Act either, I hate how this country is going.

How did this ever go to a VOTE?

It's fucking BIOLOGY jesus christ...

Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive things, it’s not the same as the ability to reason. I’ve never ever heard anyone seriously try to argue that a dog can’t feel pain or anxiety or fear. I’m not sure about how sentient a coral, for example, might be but birds, livestock, household pets etc are mostly sentient animals. Saying animals aren’t sentient is saying that they can’t feel pain or emotions.

Another of the brexit unintended consequences.

Shows how out of touch they are

I do worry what’s pushing this. I hope that it’s two fingers to Europe (weird thing to wish for). If it’s individuals/business with an interest in animals having fewer protections then that’s scary. What other protections can be simply done away with?

Julie8008 do you have any clue how long it takes to qualify as a vet or how much peer reviewed research there has been into animal cognition and emotional capacity? If you do, then you are a troll. If you don't, then you shouldn't try to be clever because you are as dim and ignorant as a house brick. In short-there is plenty of evidence and you should know that.

Well they can feel something. To what extent their capacity for emotions is similar to humans I doubt we will ever know. At any rate saying that they are not sentient is going s bit far (makes me thing of peter singer's view that babies and small toddlers aren't really sentient).

DJ I think that Brexit it a stupid stupid thing and that there will be many debates and votes like this ahead. Indeed looking at the Bill being discussed this was one of a number of similar amendments on the day and it looks as if they all failed.

However saying that MPs voted that animals 'cannot feel emotions or pain' is a deliberately inflammatory and inaccurate way to describe the vote. You linked to a good article that I doubt many people reading your OP read, so they think your description of the discussion was accurate. I think that animal welfare is important and I expect that protection will be weaker after Brexit, but that's true of the environmental clauses too which also failed I expect due to anti-EU sentiment and nothing else. I wonder how many minutes were devoted to any of these discussions.

MPs who voted this down are clearly arseholes.

If course animals are sentient beings. Humans are animals too. We are sentient beings too, though with the possible exception of some MPs.

This is very sad and dissappointing. Makes me really worried about where all rhis is heading.

There are no words. My heart is breaking and the world has gone to hell in a handcart.

Disgusting. Now we can leave our mps to govern and be a sovereign nation (as if we weren’t before). Looks like they’re making some great decisions .