To tell you never to accept a caution?

[brasty]

Or at least not without legal advice.

The police often offer cautions in cases where they know there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction. So if you refuse a caution in these cases, the case will simply be dropped. The caution is offered so that the police can officially say the crime has been cleared and dealt with. But many people accept cautions when they are innocent, because of fear of going to court.

So not only have you advised “innocent” people that they don’t have to accept a caution..you have also just advised a load of lawbreakers that they can get away without a caution bra fuckin vo.

Lola You really think guilty people are not entitled to legal advice?

But Lola the "guilty lawbreakers" can still be prosecuted in court, and found guilty of their offences.

The difference would be they would have to be taken to court and go through a trial. Accepting a caution usually means "a slap on the wrist" whereas refusing a caution and going to court would incur greater penalties.

Accepting or rejecting the caution as a person who genuinely committed am offence is neither here nor there.

Or am I misunderstanding your post?

@Pickleypickles "Or just obey the law and the police tend not to bother you"

Quite. It's not hard not to get arrested, or to have the police turn up at your door, or to get pulled over by the police. Just obey the law!

DP was pulled over for not indicating; something he still denies. The 2 officers then decided that they should search the car and found his hockey stick; he was on way home from a match, and decided that this was an offensive weapon.

But they were going to go ‘easy’ on him and just give him a caution.

They then asked for ID; suddenly the hockey stick was ok and maybe he had indicated.

His ID was his warrant card…………

DP was in a nice car; an Audi estate, in a nice area (they scoffed when he said he was on his way home) however he is Asian.

All of my DNephews have been questioned by the police, one when he was 11 (yes I know 11 years can commit crimes) he was walking home from school.
They were looking for a 20 odd white male….didn't stop them from harassing an 11 year Asian kid

DN 2 want to be a police officer when he was younger, not anymore.

Anyone who thinks DWB (or Driving while Asian) isn’t a thing is naïve

As an Irish person who moved over here in the early 80's I thought I knew what police hassle was, at least I could just keep my mouth shut; it's not like DP or DNs can change the colour of their skin....

I could see DN1 or DN3 would accept a caution in confusion, fear and panic. DN2 is a bit more cynical, and would call us first.

It's possible to refuse a caution and never hear anything again if the CPS decide there is insufficient evidence to prosecute. Refusing a caution is not "sufficient evidence". It's not unknown ...

I don't hate the police at all, not least because a family member was on the force until illness prevented it. My main impression is that, like basically everyone in public service, they're massively stretched with barely the resources available to do the job properly. If someone accepts a caution that's job done and the whole thing's wrapped up quickly, right? So offer them out all round and you should get a couple of bites.

I'm not attaching any malice or even conscious wrong-doing to that. All I'm saying is that in the circumstances I witnessed the police were just too damned busy to do what we needed to see that the allegations were a waste of time and offered a caution to the accused as sort of a "short cut", as this person was obviously keen for a resolution (and for the punitive bail conditions to end!).

Damnit all I am at that!

years ago when I was a teenager me and a friend went shopping the friend stole a mascara the security who seen on cctv called the police who then gave us both a caution and took us down to the station to be picked up. I asked why I was cautioned as I had not stolen anything and to be cautioned with theft seemed wrong when I didn't steal. However it stayed on my records for years and was very embarrassing explaining in work interviews

@RatRolyPoly So was I; I was cynical about the police over here anyway but that really showed how some police can be. Saying that all DP’s police mates were lovely but I encountered some right pricks when we attended social events.

I know I say DN’s but I’ve known all of them since they were babies and they refer/see me as Auntie (at one point 2 of them lived with us for several months)
But my other DN’s (my DSis boys); pretty much the same age as Asian DN’s, and white have NEVER EVER been stopped by the police.

Actually tell a lie; DP once picked (white) DN up and was reported as having kidnaped him….I posted about it at the time several name changes ago.

When the police pulled them over DN nearly crapped himself despite having done nothing ; DP just flashed his warrant card (scary in its own way) and was sent on his way.

@DamnItAll

They then asked for ID; suddenly the hockey stick was ok and maybe he had indicated ... His ID was his warrant card

So presumably the officers in question were reported and are now facing severe disciplinary action(s) ?

Or was nothing said, and they are free to stitch up the next minority driver they feel like ?

@LurkingHusband ; oh he did report them; got nowhere and he left the force soon after.

He had been their local poster boy; and was asked why he was leaving by senior officers, he told them that this was the final straw; that he had complained and nothing had happened.

They claimed that it had been investigated and were adamant that things couldn’t have happened the way he said.

The hockey stick incident was witnessed by 2 neighbours; that’s how close he was to home; but one was female and the other from an ethnic minority, so clearly unreliable (sarcasm alert)

LurkingHusband oh he did report them; got nowhere and he left the force soon after.

Sounds like my old boss, who was (very pointedly) an ex copper. He had some tales to tell.

Also cautions are practically impossible to undo once accepted.

I think a lot of people here forget that the Home Office (and thus police) view of people with no criminal record is that they are simply criminals who haven't been caught.

Remember this is why they are still (illegally) keeping innocent peoples DNA on file (except Dominic Greens, naturally). The official reason is that these people are only innocent now. They might be guilty in future, so it makes sense to keep these records "just in case".

So UK innocence is actually just "not been caught yet".

Thank yiu for the heads up brasty

I did know this but i will make sure i pass the information on to my children

I have only had good experiences in my dealings with the police, an uncle, two cousins and my brother are or were police officers, i aslo applied to join the force

But you would have to be fairly stupid to not understand that there are some rotten officers out there...not many possibly but enough

An uncle of mine was waiting for us to turn up so he could lead the way to his house, the car was making weird noises so he had the bonnet up. Police stopped and questioned him at some length. When we turned up and were surprised at this he explained that it happened a lot one assumes because he was black

My long haired layabout of a brother was followed home late at night by the police once, he pulled into our drive opened the door with his key. Two minutes later the police knocked and refused to leave until they had spoken to my very unhappy newly woken father

we've already been told repeatedly that a caution will only be "offered" to those who've admitted guilt

Where? And by who? Where is this confirmed? That completely contradicts everything I've seen or read

I was referring to posts on this thread, coolmint ... I can C+P them for you if you want, but they're all there if you want to look back

They're often used to influence admission of guilt, at a time where innocence is being asserted

This seems to be the exact point, doesn't it? As already said, I certainly don't claim that all police are liars, but then I wouldn't say it about all the posters who've experienced this either. There's a very obvious mismatch between what the police insist should - even does - happen and what many folk are reporting and I'd like to know why that is

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't cautions count as a crime being solved (I believe there's a phrase about "disposal") hence helping the clear up rate? I quite see this may not matter to the PC on the beat, but it will certainly matter to his superiors, who might just exert pressure for more to be given ...

Surely when people are measured on performance, there will always be some who fiddle a bit to make performance look better. Happens in every industry.

yes police can be as corrupt as the next proffesson just like there are alot of crocked bankers, robbing retail staff, abusive teachers and carers.

But unlike all the offer careers police are all tarnished the same as the bad apples.

No one on here would dare say that most retail or cleaning staff are robbing bastards (even though there is a lot of theft from some people in these careers) or that all carers are scummy abusive people because a few people are.

But for some reason ALL police are fair game to be called corrupt, racist or bully boys etc just because a few ARE does not mean that it is the majority or even a sizeable minority are.

Absolutely, brasty ... it's just that a lot of organisations' fiddling doesn't land folk with a record they perhaps didn't understand

Nope worredmum Absolutely NO-ONE has said that.

But for some reason ALL police are fair game to be called corrupt, racist or bully boys etc just because a few ARE does not mean that it is the majority or even a sizeable minority are.

Because - as DamnItAll highlights, unlike most retail or cleaning staff who when caught will be charged, face court, and get a criminal record. Whereas policemen ?????

If we take that overall, the police force are representative of the society they police (and we'll leave the implications if they are not for another thread) then you'd expect a crude ratio to exists between detected criminality in other professions and detected criminality in the police.

What's the betting this isn't the case [hmmmm]. Say 130,000 police in the UK ?

Inncent people get greif from the police all the time.

Many are power hungry and low intelligence and get off on trying to use their power. I've been told bare faced lies by one who wrote off my car then had a go at me and when the independent police officer arrived he conveniently forgot to breathalyse him. So many corrupt out there sadly.

But for some reason ALL police are fair game to be called corrupt, racist or bully boys etc just because a few ARE does not mean that it is the majority or even a sizeable minority are.

Police have to follow higher standards than other professions. They have to be scrupulously fair & honest all the time.

They also have to police themselves, no not all police are bad/corrupt. But they close ranks and "look after their own" in far too many of these cases...

piffle That is not the case nowadays. We are hung out to dry by Professional Standard (rightly so when it is deserved) and my force will record any complaint made by a member of the public about a police officer no matter how ridiculous it is. I had one against me recently and he should have been told to piss of the second he walked in to complain about me.

Gone are the days of "closed ranks".

They also have to police themselves, no not all police are bad/corrupt. But they close ranks and "look after their own" in far too many of these cases...

Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?