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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell you never to accept a caution?

414 replies

brasty · 19/11/2017 13:42

Or at least not without legal advice.

The police often offer cautions in cases where they know there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction. So if you refuse a caution in these cases, the case will simply be dropped. The caution is offered so that the police can officially say the crime has been cleared and dealt with. But many people accept cautions when they are innocent, because of fear of going to court.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/11/2017 21:51

Not quite, Toads; only the courts can convict so it's not quite the same, though I believe they can take account of convictions if you're caught doing something in future

And it's certainly true that many cautions show up on a DBS

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/11/2017 21:57

I also think some people don’t understand what constitutes a criminal offence. People then think they’ve been given a caution whilst still thinking they’re innocent

But we've already been told repeatedly that a caution will only be "offered" to those who've admitted guilt

If someone believes they've not committed a crime - whether they're right about that or not - then they're hardly likely to admit it are they?

MancLife · 19/11/2017 22:04

The point being made is some people will accept a caution just to get out of the station even if they think they’re guilty or not. That said it’s amazing how many people ‘alter’ what happened when speaking about it after being released.

coolmintmatchmakers · 19/11/2017 23:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/11/2017 23:44

It's not like the police can only offer a Caution after someone has stated they are guilty

And yet, time after time, we've been told this is just what does have to happen ...

Gwenhwyfar · 20/11/2017 00:10

"Isn't the point that people don't realise that accepting a Caution is an admission of guilt? "

Also that people don't know that it will show up on their criminal record.

brasty · 20/11/2017 00:22

coolmint What happened to you was appalling.

OP posts:
GuiltyPleasure · 20/11/2017 01:02

Accepting a caution is an admission of guilt & results in a criminal record. It’s really that simple. You don’t accept a caution unless you admit the crime. I work in the criminal justice system & the number of people I come across that don’t understand that baffles me, similarly the people that plead guilty at court because they’ll get a reduced sentence.

Vitalogy · 20/11/2017 04:18

Why would people automatically know this though. If you've never had any dealings with this type of situation then it's totally understandable not to realise.

Alfred1 · 20/11/2017 06:02

Im looking for some help. My son came home after a night out.
He was drunk, and was involved with an an altercation with doormen.
Police attended and he was sent home with no charges and wasn't arrested.
They did confiscate his keyring which is a kubaton. Something he and myself thought was okay as its on his keys.
He is worried about after affects from this as am I.
If he was not arrested or charged could something happen later?
Any advice would be great, thank you.

DivisionBelle · 20/11/2017 06:38

Alfred, it doesn’t sound as if police will take it further.

But a Kubotan is classed as an offensive weapon, so he has been lucky and I suggest he does not replace it.

Alfred1 · 20/11/2017 06:47

Thanks DivisionBelle, he is a good lad but I think its a wake up call. More than anything he is upset about his actions.
Weve spoken to him and he isnt getting another. So we should hear no more about you think?

GinwithCucumber · 20/11/2017 06:57

So relieved reading this that gut instinct dissuaded me from accepting a caution in the UK when I was away for the weekend a few years ago. My x had trumped up charges and the police followed them up as is routine. I denied his accusations and told them to go and inspect his property and then charge him with wasting their time. They wanted me to accept a caution and I said no. Go and see how he has been wasting your time. I thought they'd just leave it Confused when they got the measure of the situation but they kept on at me to come in to the station and accept a caution! I didn't. So glad now.

GlossyShine · 20/11/2017 07:25

Bloody hell it gets worse. So all our police are corrupt liars who invent reasons to stop, search and charge people? Wow. We have many police officers who post on MN and even more are married to one or have one in the family. So they’re all corrupt too?

Did you all mean to be so rude or are you just being a bit goady bcause you’re bored?

EvilRinguBitch · 20/11/2017 07:57

Gosh yes that’s a terrible thing to say Glossy. I must have missed it on the thread reading quickly. Who said it? Have you reported them?

DublinBlowin · 20/11/2017 08:10

But we've already been told repeatedly that a caution will only be "offered" to those who've admitted guilt

They're often used to influence admission of guilt, at a time where innocence is being asserted:

Things previous clients have been told: If you accept a caution....

You'll be out of here in an hour
I won't have to interview your (dying) mother
I won't inform your employer
You'll avoid going to court, it's far less hassle
You won't have to see your attacker/harasser again
I'll get you home so you can pick DD up, it'd be a pity if I had to call social services

The naivety on threads like these makes me want to cry. The poster expressing incredulity at someone being interviewed at home: I've had clients interviewed:

At home
Naked
In bed
In an ambulance
In a hospital bed
Whilst drunk
Whilst incoherent with drugs
When they clearly don't understand sufficient English
Whilst seriously injured at the scene of a crime
Whilst having their (broken) arm painfully restrained

GinwithCucumber · 20/11/2017 08:12

I was proresting innocence quite vociferously and was offered one. The lunacy of the situation scared me.

I realise that whoever "gets in there first" with their side is in a position of power

OhOurBilly · 20/11/2017 08:20

Realistically though... How many "innocent" people tend to get arrested or hauled in for questioning? I can't imagine many people going about their normal business find themselves having to choose between accepting a caution or going to court. Under what circumstances, for example?

My DH is a doorman. There was an incident with three young(ish) lads. (Lads kicked off inside, assaulted a couple of barstaff, they were removed, they took offence at being removed and continued to attempt to scrap, when they realised they were getting nowhere, damaged two cars, then went on their way, fighting amongst themselves. Incident was written up, no more thought about it. It's fairly common.

Few weeks later my DH and his colleagues were asked to come in for questioning about the incident. It was stressed that they wouldn't be arrested. Upon turning up, they were, and we're offered a caution (which DH respectfully declined). He was told to take the caution "nobody wants this to go to court, you'll end up doing six months for ABH, you'll end up with a fine AND having to pay court costs, you'll lose your badge". He still refused, gave his account of the incident and was released on bail.

It went to court. There was CCTV produced, by the CPS on the day "but I don't think we need to view this your honour as there is nothing pertinent on it" In the next sentence he (CPS brief) admitted he'd never actually watched the CCTV. DHs solicitor insisted. The CCTV showed the incident inside, the subsequent removal and the damage of the cars. The "victim" said in front of the judge when questioned as to why he'd hit two barmen, then fought with the doorstaff, then spat in DHs face "well they're bouncers, that's what they're there for!" Judge told him that he was lucky he ("victim") wasn't being charged with assault and criminal damage. Judge dropped the case and said it was a massive waste of his and DH/colleague/CPS time.

Had DH accepted the caution, he would have lost his badge, both jobs (which require the badge) would have been unable to get another job in the industry which he has some 20 years working in. He would have had a criminal record which he would have had to declare on each job application.

I was 38 weeks pregnant at the time of his arrest and it was fucking horrific. I am a nice, middle class, 30 year old woman. I was terrified of their picture being circulated on the local newspaper "bully bouncers arrested for GBH" etc. Prior to this, I wouldn't have known that accepting a caution was an admittance of guilt. I though the police were there to help, serve and protect, if you will. We experienced the opposite. I was (and still am, shocked about it).

OhOurBilly · 20/11/2017 08:25

I realise that whoever "gets in there first" with their side is in a position of power!

This was my experience also, had DH phoned for police assistance at the time, they would have been the ones in control. Door staff are told not to phone the police as it puts pressure on the pub/club with licensing and statistics and if an incident is already dealt with and the perpetrators have moved on, then it's a waste of police time.

Oblomov17 · 20/11/2017 08:28

I too think this is very important. And not known by most people. I didn’t know it. It should be taught to teenagers.

It was insisted that it was the best option/easiest option/best choice. Until later the person realises it actually isn’t and they haven’t just got a ‘caution’, they’ve actually got a ‘conviction’ aswell, but that hadn’t quite dawned on them.

Bad effects on the rest of their lives.

PiffleandWiffle · 20/11/2017 08:36

Unlike a few posting here, I don't hate our police.

It's not about "hating the police", it's about a certain naivety that some people seem to have about Police, Teachers, Nurses etc...

You're just as likely to come across petty, malicious, tired, stressed, "can't be arsed" coppers as you are in any other job - they're certainly not saints just because they have a badge!

PiffleandWiffle · 20/11/2017 08:40

We have many police officers who post on MN and even more are married to one or have one in the family.

And they'd be the first to admit that they have the same emotions & drivers as "normal" people.

You seem to have a bit of naive hero worship going on reference our boys & girls & blue, I hope it doesn't come crashing down some day!

strugglingtodomybest · 20/11/2017 08:59

Thanks for the advice OP, I'll be passing it on to my kids.

brasty · 20/11/2017 09:20

I want to add that I don't hate the police, or think the police are out to get everyone. But comments shared here make it clear that the rules are not always followed, and that a caution should never be accepted if you are innocent, and only after taking legal advice if you are guilty.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 20/11/2017 09:39

Realistically though... How many "innocent" people tend to get arrested or hauled in for questioning?

If the answer isn't zero, then this thread has a purpose.