Babies in Childcare - Honest Opinions Please

[ChesterBelloc]

I've read several threads recently in which people stated that so long as a baby is competently cared for in a suitable environment, it makes no difference to the child whether the adult(s) in question are the baby's parent(s) or childcare professionals.

Do you believe this?

(I'm not asking for yet another debate about the extent to which 'stay-at-home parenting' may be detrimental to women's quest for equality/career progression/intellectual stimulation etc etc. There's enough on these boards already about that.)

I'm asking whether people genuinely believe that babies have/should have no stake in the discussion; whether they think that it makes no difference to the babies themselves whether they are with their parents all day or with a nursery/childminder - and if there is a qualitative difference, which is the better option, from the child's perspective.

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views, not trying to be goady (though fully expect to be flamed for even raising this question, due to the possible implications and inferences that could be extrapolated from it). Thank you for reading thus far!

And the people bleating about research need to start linking to actual studies before they start throwing around assumptions. The research is actually far from clear cut- as is the case with most thing involving children.

Link to studies or be an expert in child development and I’ll take you more seriously. I suspect most people here have only read sensationalised newspaper articles or fairly biased parenting books.

Today 12:26 NannyOggsKnickers

And the people bleating about research need to start linking to actual studies before they start throwing around assumptions

& by studies it means a link to the actual paper not just the likes of the independent etc interpreting the data to their own agenda.

There are so, so many variables here that it is impossible to say what might suit a particular baby best.

Just my opinion but i dont think it is best for a baby to be in nursery full time. Id never tell anyone that in real life of course as that's none of my business what other people do with their children. It should be a lot easier for parents to do flexible hours and work around each other than it currently is.

OK so basically your thread is simply for us to make a guess at whether pre verbal children would rather be in nursery or at home with parent? Which would depend on the child, the parents, the home and the nursery. Once the children become verbal they can tell us whether they like nursery, both of my children have told me they love it. As others have said, the SAHM is a pretty new thing, it's not unnatural for us to have some time away from our parents as children, there are 168 hours in a week, if a baby is in nursery 40 hours a week then they still spend over 75% of time with parents, the 'why have children if you are not going to bring them up' is bullshit.

Gosh Crumbs! You either didn't read that article or (more likely) didn't understand it.

But you appear to be suggesting post grad qualifications should be a requirement before people are allowed to breed.

Until maternity pay and protections don't potentially put a family into poverty, as the current economic climate means that most households need 2 working parents and it being extremely rare to find such flexible employment then we need childcare.

I think being with a good childminder, nanny or relative probably makes little difference, though past about 6 months a baby will prefer to be with their parents.

Nursery is trickier as it is very hard/unusual for a nursery to be able to provide a secure attachment person for a baby - key persons will be in and out on breaks, covering other staff, moved to different rooms, new jobs. Babies in nurseries tend to experience several different carers each day and through their nursery 'career'.
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I completely agree with this.

I work so mine were all in childcare under 1 - 2 in nursery and one looked after by my mum who had retired - all 3 are pretty similar kids - can't really see any major damage - their father leaving had more impact then being in childcare!

Funny though - when their dad left - my working meant I could afford to get a mortgage and keep a roof over their heads and continue to feed them - so that was good

As for guilt - I can honestly say, hand on heart, I have never felt any

Other people make different choice for a range of reasons - I would never judge them for that and most people wouldn't judge me for mine

oh and the two in nursery had the same key worker from baby room to pre-school

"Until maternity pay and protections don't potentially put a family into poverty, as the current economic climate means that most households need 2 working parents and it being extremely rare to find such flexible employment then we need childcare."

Yes, I agree. More broadly, I think that, as a society, we should be having the Big Conversations about whether it is necessary/desirable/possible (in this age of ever-increasing automation and technological progress) for all adults to be encouraged to aim for full-time paid employment, even/especially if they have young children. House prices also become part of the conversation here, as it is becoming very hard to sustain a family on one wage (or two part-time wages) a though it's not impossible, even in London. It's a question of choices, up to a certain point.

Happy2bhomely I really like your opinion on this. I think 4 is too young to start reception personally.

I used childcare with DS1 from when he was 9 months old.

No matter how good the childcare is the baby/infant would always rather be with its parent. I don't understand how anyone can think being in childcare is just as good as being at home with mom or dad.

My baby is 3 months old and of course it's better that he is with me.

As a previous poster said, how can it be beneficial for a baby/infant to be separated from its parents for frequent and prolonged stretches of time?

I absolutely understand that in some circumstances the baby/infant has to be in full time childcare and that's fair enough, but it's still a secondary option over them being at home with a parent.

But in Scandinavia which is often upheld as a model society with far fewer problems to our society, this conversation would not arise because it's the norm for mums to work and for kids to go to state funded daycare from age 1. Are you saying they are wrong and are raising a nation of dysfunctional, repressed maniacs? They seem to be more egalitarian and have a lower crime and re-offending rate for a start.

Mine were in childcare from 4 and 5 months pt. Given the "choice" I'm sure they'd had rather been with me. But their needs didn't out-trump mine and I needed to get back to work for my sanity. Without nursery, we would never have had a break from 24 hour childcare until they went to school. Ever.
It was a great nursery though with fantastic outdoor facilities.

Glad I don't live in Scandinavia. That wouldn't be my cup of tea at all.

WildBlueBells I'm not sure that international comparisons are useful, given the potential for differences in structures/funding/style of early years childcare, workplace culture, parenting expectations and so on.

It's possible that any disadvantage caused by early childcare in Scandinavia is offset by advantages in other areas of Scandinavian life, leading to lower crime etc. Not saying that this is the case, just international comparison arguments are so difficult to prove that they're rarely helpful IMO.

Well, of course you have to take account of other variables, but cross-cultural comparisons are on the whole useful. I suspect Scandinavian daycare is of a higher standard than in the UK, but it is still care by a non-parent and a society where people do not seem to be suffering ill effects from it.

I think it depends on the nursery. My DS went to nursery from 8months. He had same key worker for his time there. Even though he is now in year 1 the nursery staff still keep in touch via Facebook and we go and visit. All the staff were so attentive to the children, prob more so than any parent could be. Their job was to look after the babies, they were not doing the shopping, washing, cleaning, coffee with friends etc. Never seen a nursery child confused over who parents were. My only child is great at sharing, making friends etc. Good at mixing in holiday clubs etc. In our case I think it did have an effect, but a positive one😁

Re Scandinavia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jonas-himmelstrand-/effects-of-daycarebb_4220857.html

Mine were in nursery 3 days a week from 5 and 6 months. They had 2:1 care and the same key worker for 2 years. Who cried when they left and they adored her. I don't think it hurt them at all. I worked in a male dominated job where taking a year out was not an option. Also because of the job I couldn't risk being dependant on a single carer if they were sick/on leave as it was genuinely disastrous if I couldn't go in.

Have a look at maslows hierarchy pyramid.
It details the need of a person/child/baby as an individual. My belief is that as long as those needs are been met by a parental/guardian figure then the person will do ok in life.

Another angle of the same:

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/jonas-himmelstrand-swedish-parents-have-lost-trust-in-themselves-under-the-daycare-assault/

"If affordable public childcare is to be introduced then Finland is a better model than Sweden and it has the better outcomes to show for it. Finland has affordable public daycare just like Sweden, but it also gives parents a reasonable choice through the homecare allowance, which is the equivalent to between £250 and £500 monthly. Some municipalities top this off with additional financial support."

Anything by Conservative Woman is dodgy as hell. Laura Perrins who is the founder of it is one of the most hideous examples of humanity I have encountered. If you read her articles, you will see that she actively thinks that women have no role beyond getting married and being subordinate to men. She bleats on an on about how marriage is sacred, yet her husband is a divorce barrister and all their family income comes from family breakdown.

Jonas Himmelstrand has also been widely discredited and does not have an academic degree himself.

www.theguardian.com/money/2013/apr/21/childcare-expert-jonas-himmelstrand-tories

However, Dr Sven Bremberg, a researcher at Sweden's Karolinska Institute who led the 2006 inquiry into youth mental health cited by Himmelstrand, said his study had ruled out daycare as a cause. "There is no substance whatsoever behind Himmelstrand's statement that a decline of mental health in young people in Sweden is related to daycare. That was one of the points we specifically investigated," he said.

Think I trust the views of the academic who led the study rather than some random unqualified man intent on saying daycare is dangerous.