To think that work in the UK didn't always used to be like this & wonder why it changed?

[abualb]

(name changed as I've posted on here for a while and i'm pretty sure you could figure out my employer. Cheeky fuckers, send them a cheque, toasters, and all that.)

I'm mid-thirties and started working in a semi-professional role straight from uni. So did DH, who's 5 years older than me (41). no DC yet.

Over the last year i've become really disheartened with my job, and at first i thought it was my employer - i've realise it's not, i've never had what i could call a "good" employer, and nor has DH. and year on year it (working practices) get worse. it just seems to be that the accepted way of working that we've experienced is fairly toxic/on a slipping slope. maybe it's the sectors but i'll give you some examples.

• expectations around 'always on' availability. I've had a work phone since about 5 years ago, and more than ever there seems to be the expectation that you're available outside of normal working hours (emails flying back and forth in the evenings, requests for info before a 8am meeting on monday sent at 7pm on a friday, whatever). text messages, calls once or twice most weekends. neither of us are in critical, non-office hours jobs like hands-on healthcare or shift work or anything - it's normal, non-urgent work part of normal work activity. no such thing as 9-5 any more like in our contracts, it's 8am 'oh so you're coming in late tomorrow' to 5pm 'leaving early today' attitudes.

• expectations around having no personal life. example: i'm never really ill, and the one time i recently tried to get to a GP was in the last appointment they had, at 6.15pm. meaning i had to leave work at 5pm. the pressure i was under because i was not available to be in a meeting was immense. it was just a recurring internal status meeting.

• no one taking actual lunch breaks. we have meetings with people eating sandwichs in them, if they managed to get away to get something to eat at all.

• recurring team meetings starting at 7.15am & 8am each day of the week, not time-urgent critical ones, again, just normal ones, meaning mornings are even more hugely stressful than they need to be. a constant drive to go in earlier to "get ahead"... but that re-sets expectations about when we start, so team meetings move 15 mins earlier.. a horrid cycle!

• massive communications overload. we have people sitting in meetings doing work, half listening, half working, because by the time you get out, you'd arrive back to 40 emails to wade through if you tried to actually switch 'off' for an hour. constant phone calls interrupting people at work.

I'm convinced work didn't used to be like this, and i've seen similar patterns across 3 different employers in the last 8 years. DH is recently experiencing similar, over the last 2 years pressure on him to get more done, work longer hours, has increased unsustainably.

i don't know what to do about it - my colleagues seem to deal with it by doing half-arsed jobs of their work to cope, OR enjoy it (feed on the chaotic buzz), OR collapse and go off sick, OR resign to take up different careers. i don't want to leave but i can't see how i can continue in this working culture as it continues to decline.

AIBU to think this is one of the most damaging outcomes of modern technology, as wonderful as it is? i sometimes feel like throwing my work phone into the sink to get a couple of evenings of peace before it got replaced, but then i'd probably just have to stay at the office late to take conference calls anyway, so not solving the problem.

I hear you - DS1 and his friends have similar experiences to you. DH and I were talking recently about how the whole work place now is much more stressful. We are both medics - I'm semi-retired and DH is winding down and we never had the level of stress that DS1 has now and he isn't in a life-saving role either. I really believe that email has added significantly to the workload along with losing admin and secretarial support

I work I financial services and completely relate to this. People now take their work mobiles on holidays and check emails every day and send the occasional email. A friend is currently on maternity leave and checking emails every day. No lunch. Early meetings. Less admin staff. I work most nights to keep up. It's insane - and not healthy.

I recognise this but from 15 odd years ago in law.

I went on maternity leave and when I returned 12 months later it was bonkers. I think I had become blind to it until I took a break.

I decided to be a sahm for the next decade or so and I've now gone back to work but as hotel reception instead. Its odd how much I expected them to be constantly asking me things but it was very laid back compared to my last position. No one has text, emailed or phoned outside of work hours and I finish at the end of my shift actually on time. Its all a bit novel at the moment. They all think I'm bonkers.

When I was at school, before computers were common place, we were told that technology would improve our work life balance and we would have more free time and everyone work part time. It was going to be fantastic in the future

Also the claim culture has led to more paperwork as employers get staff to document everything to protect themselves.

I worked in a nursery for the first time nearly 40 years ago. The ordinary nursery workers did very little paperwork, very different to now.

Reinette I remember being taught at school that our biggest problem in the future would be what we would do with all our leisure time, as we would be working so few hours.

You kind of have to put boundaries back in place around meeting times, using the work phone during non work time etc.

It feels hard at first but actually it isn’t. Don’t apologise for not wanting to do a 715am meeting, just say you can’t and request it is moved. The key is to not make excuses. Just a simple no, a better time is X.

I’ve found this easier since changing jobs to somewhere where I don’t have a (perceived) reputation to maintain.

Well if I had a designated work phone I'd turn it off once I was off the clock. Employers can only be like this if employees facilitate it.

I've only had one job like that! I do earn less than you though.

I think certain industries have developed this sort of culture as a badge of pride where if management model smart working practices it's just not necessary.

I've worked in finance for 17 years and only one place was like that. Every other place has recognised the importance of work/life balance. I've regularly had to work 60 hour weeks, it's part of the job but when weeks like you describe start to become the norm management need to work out why and reassess ways of working.

As a PP said, things like meetings where everyone is working at the same time take longer and are less effective which has a cumulative affect on efficiency.

We had a thing called the 8pm mistake where you've lost the ability to work after being flat out for 12 hours. It takes twice as long to put right the next morning and starts you off on the wrong foot. Unless you're in a truly life or death situation it's counterproductive.

Honestly, with experience in those types of role you could switch track to something far less stressful and earn the same.

Last place I worked was like this. It is why I left.

I think the problem is it's an entire culture, with no management support

How can I reject the Mon 8am team 1 meeting with 6 others willing, or the 7.15 Tues one for Team 2? Or the department 'allhands' at 6pm fortnightly? Or my Thursday 7.15 with the new project team I just joined with 12 others? I got into so much pressure trying to leave at 5 for my GP appointment last week I have no idea how to enforce boundaries any more.
I'm so worn out !

I work in middle management at a very large multinational (not financial services though). It can be stressful during the day and the pace is very fast, 100mph from start to finish, but it is pretty much 37.5-40 hours per week (contract is 37.5) and there’s no expectation of more at my level or lower. At director/vp/svp level I think it would be more full on but even so there is lots of daytime working from home, no issues with medical appointments or fitting in appointments around kids etc. I have a work phone and laptop and check email on the train to get ahead but lots of my peers don’t even look at their work phones between 4pm and 8am. At my level salaries vary but are in the region you and your dh earn. Your workplace sounds really toxic!

It is common in the public sector for people to have to work at home, extra hours.

Can you set your calendar to automatically decline when busy, then book yourself as busy before 8 and after 5/6? What support does your HR dept offer. I think id start looking for another job...

I work in the finance sector, as does my OH. We both finish at 4, everyday. We both also have lunch breaks.
But then we are not senior or high up

Where you work sounds awful!

You just say no I can’t make it. Part of the pressure is in your head. Someone might say “oh but x, y and z” can make it. You just say “ok, well that doesn’t work for me, either update me afterwards or let’s find a different time”.

Job done.

I guarantee you won’t be the only one who doesn’t want the meetings at stupid o’clock but they’ve just slowly got sucked into it.

I don't think you get paid enough for what they are expecting.

It's clear from what other posters are saying that there are better workplaces out there. If you have some sort of accountancy qualification (or could get one) you have the option of being in finance in any sort of business, right? Something to look into.

Can you get a week off sometime and spend it looking into a career change into something else? I have done long hours jobs and it's very hard to even think of making a change while you're in the thick of it.

I used to work crazy hours. Was always available. Quit and have never had to in a job again.
I work in finance. I’m a contractor now so out of hours contact is not expected anyway.
Can you change companies? I find it’s hard to change when I’m the same job but if you move it’s easier to set expectations.

Doesn’t sound great.

You could always become a police officer, colleagues doing 15 days straight. Minimum 12 hour days getting spat on, abused, and assaulted for the princely sum of 35k.

That's madness -I work in banking in a mid-management role (c£80k salary) and I just don't recognise this culture at all - you need to find another job!

Weak or no trade unions.

The rights trade unions fought for and won are being thrown away.

People believe the right wing rhetoric and scramble to do what management want.

No, it’s awful. People have literally swallowed the lie that they should be grateful to have jobs, that there’s no money , that there’s a dozen people who could take their jobs

If you own a company or are a big boss you’re getting paid fortunes while everyone else is paying for your villa in the South of France

The gap between the wealthy and poor is wider than ever - and what do we do?

Turn on each other after watching right wing propaganda like benefits programmes

People aren’t stupid, they’re just ground down and don’t have time to think

I think it is people in lower paid jobs that suffer most from this. Not those on minimum wage, and not those well paid, but those in the middle earning £20-£40k.

I hear you OP. Similar but nowhere near as bad in my company. That said I have one colleague who's out of office message when on holiday basically says ' I am on holiday until x. Upon my return I will delete all emails received in my absence so email me when I get back if it's important.' She's not particularly senior and no ones called her out on it yet, I wish I had the balls to do the same. Sometimes the expectations you think there are more the issue rather than the actual expectations. What would happen if you started small? ....'I can't make x late meeting on Wednesday, I have to be elsewhere.' And stop, no, I'll come in early on Thursday instead or whatever.