Why are the media horrified and amazed George bush Sr has had allegations of sexual assault made when we have a self confessed and proud sex offender in charge of the USA?

[StealthPolarBear]

Clearly it's been approved of by the current president. So other men do it too, how can that be more newsworthy.
Right now the only men that could shock me would be dh, dad and fil.

Are people really arguing that grab her by the pussy isnt sexual assault.. No he's not been convicted. Usually it's one word against another but in this case it's some guy describing sexual assaults he has carried out. Or consensual pussy grabs if that's your thing. The context certainly didnt imply they consented.

StealthPolarBear He is foul and crass but talking about pussy grabbing and actually pussy grabbing ( without consent) are two very different things - you do understand that don't you?

I quite like it when my husband grabs my pussy or talks about it and that is ok... but if it was non consentual then I would call the police.

I feel sorry for woman who have been actually sexually assaulted/raped being put in the same box as men who have said some crude things (which is most men and quite a lot of women)

*feel sorry for woman who have been...

He was boasting about avtual events. You do understand that don't you?

StealthPolarBear Yes and who knows if its true. It's just talk

I think you're being naive.

Sixteen women have accused Trump of sexual harassment.

StealthPolarBear Solid, well thought out answer there. But do you know 100% that it's true? And that if it is the women did not consent?

makeourfuture Has he been arrested?

It's very sweet but a little daft.. Do you only ever comment on things you know 100% to be true or do you sometimes take a judgement call based on the facts.. Please bear in mind this is a thread on mn, not a court of law and the two do not need to be held to equal standards

The posters saying they believe that Trump believed he had consent, and also that this can't be compared to what's happening in Hollywood...

You do know Weinstein hasn't been convicted of sexual assault either, or even arrested for it? Ever.

And he issued a statement claiming all his sexual actions were consensual: "Any allegations of non-consensual sex are unequivocally denied by Mr. Weinstein."

I'm not sure not-being-arrested or talking as if all sex is consensual, really tells us much either way.

I had a light-bulb moment reading the FWR boards here when it was articulated that some men act as if women exist in a perpetual state of consent, which women have to explicitly withdraw for it to count(!). The language about sexual assault and harassment in Parliament recently has been the same: some men saying this behaviour "used to be acceptable". It's taken other people to point out sexual assault and harassment have NEVER been acceptable to those on the receiving end - even though the perpetrators rarely suffered consequences.

Oh ffs. I assume you're also refusing to believe Saville was a molester?

StealthPolarBear I'm not defending Trump at all, I would not be surprised if it is all true, he is a horror show. And Saville would have been arrested if he was still alive when everything came out. I just don't think witch hunts are good for society, if someone has done an illegal thing then go to the Police, don't put it on Twitter. We are now in a position were anyone can accuse anyone publically and they accusor is believed straight away. I believe in innocent until proven guilty sorry.

The accuser is believed straight away?
Bullshit.
Have you seen the treatment of the victims on social media? Did you see the response to Amber Heard, who did literally everything by the book when she was assaulted by her husband?

Give me a break.

Look at Louis CK. Denied his behaviour for years and now admits it because its costing him money. If you think every abuser or rapist is even questioned by police, you're living in a fantasy land. Do you know what it's like to report a sexual assault to the police and have evidence collected, let alone go to court, let alone when the accused is your partner?

The first boyfriend who sexually assaulted me, I did go to the police. That experience made sure I didn't bother when I was assaulted / raped by three others subsequently, and I certainly couldn't face it when I was child and experienced abuse at my father's hands.

It's not as simple as you seem to think it is, especially when your husband is as wealthy and powerful as Trump.

AGAIN, you're using courtroom terminology. It has no bearing on whether someone is guilty or not in reality.

No need to apologise. Assuming innocent until proven guilty is fine for the t purposes of a trial. In the real world you are allowed to use your judgement. I think we in stein has done some illegal and immoral things obviously a higher standard of proof would be needed before locking him up and th ere would be don't worry. In th e meantime i will continue to think as I do.
You don't need to start every post with my name BTW. It's clear you're addressing me.

TammySwansonTwo sorry to hear you've had such a shit time xx

I do think we need courts as opposed to witch hunts. Whilst courts are not 100% they are better than complete chaos

Of course we need courts, but when over 90% of rape cases lead to the accused walking free, and knowing that the false reporting rates are extremely low, we know that there are huge numbers of rapists walking free. It's a hard crime to convict, and I agree that if you can't prove guilt, you shouldn't send someone to prison. That doesn't mean I'm going to accept the fact that every man not convicted of rape is therefore not guilty of it since I have personal experience of that being untrue.

Doesn't stop me talking about statements he himself made though! I'm not convicting him, I'm saying he described himself assaulting women.

TammySwansonTwo Completely agree with you xx

Thank you. I'm not saying I suspect all men of rape, but I know that you genuinely can't tell who's guilty and who isn't, who's a threat and who isn't. I don't think the legal system can ever deal with this crime fully and acceptably, it's too difficult to prove.

However, if someone openly claims they sexually assault women, I'm going to take their word for it frankly!

Actually... DT has since said he was making that "banter" up, he didn't grab any woman like that he just thought it was a funny amusing thing to say. I don't know how that claim would be received in court. Because the jurors are just ordinary people, ultimately, with all of our foibles, so trying to gauge if the guy was credible. Plenty of people only see in DT the admirable traits they want to see, no matter what he does or says.

Well yes thank you, I do care about what is legally correct. I like court rooms and science labs and peer review, and other places where evidence gets more weight than rumour. Jolly good thing.

Okay, so tell me what evidence you want ofsexual assault?
A sworn victim statement isn't rumour, it's evidence. Or should we just stop bothering to prosecute sex crimes altogether?