Gender Fluid and Pregnancy

[LouBlue1507]

Genuinely curious here..

AIBU to ask what happens if a woman who is 'gender fluid' falls pregnant? Do they not claim maternity leave/pay because obviously that's a female's right but if you don't identify as a female, should they claim it?

This stuff makes my head hurt. Only female, woman, lady, person with a womb can have a child. A male, man, guy with no womb can't have a baby. If you are pregnant you are entitled to maternity pay etc cos you are carrying a baby which means you were born into a female body. Regardless of whether you want to believe it or not.

Qwebec.

I am not saying every person with gender dysphoria believes these things. But there is an ideaology being pushed that supports this kind of thing and it is dangerous.

The ideaology is the issue here. Much like in the religious organisations. And people believing it.

Nah, cos otherwise women in Ireland could access abortions. Sure in the law it just states about women having abortions

So if you were a pregnant man, you could access an abortion?

I'd be interested to know the answer to that vegan

Does anyone remember Thomas Beattie, "the world's first pregnant man"? Proving how progressive they are, treating men and women the same , here's the Mail on how he got his figure back after three babies

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that abortion would not be legal for a man in Ireland (or in the UK after 24 weeks except in severe situations). This is because the law is constructed in such a way that it is illegal to "intentionally destroy unborn life" but with a defence for properly authorised medical abortions where it is necessary for the health of the mother.

I think. Am prepared to be told that I am wrong!

Welcome to the world of chestfeeding and menstruators (because not everyone who menstruates is a woman)

What's that I hear? Scales falling from pp's eyes?

This stuff sounds ridiculous and made up, but sadly it is not.

properly authorised medical abortions where it is necessary for the health of the mother But there's no mother

Satellite - I had a baby to have a child because I was the female hence was able to. Never had any particular desire to be pregnant as such. Having boobs and periods just go along with the sex I happen to be. I've never had any concerns I might 'really' be 'male'; I'm just not overly feminine or maternal.

What I can't therefore understand is how someone who feels so wrong in their own body -apparently because of the sex it is - would want to do something so fundamentally defined by that wrongness. If a 'man' can have a baby, the makes 'him' a man and what is so objectionable about being a woman - other than all the socially constructed gender bias we have to deal with??

Veganlan - exactly. So there is no defence in the law for a man to have an abortion (assuming that the prosecutor could successfully convince the court that the pregnant person was indeed a man and therefore not covered by the legal defence)

I wonder why women don't boo and hiss at the mention of a penis and claim it's triggering or exclusionary because we don't have one, but we're not allowed to have breasts or periods anymore because deluded men who won't accept that they are men don't have them?
The same ones who hang into their dicks (literally!) for dear life, why still insisting they're not men?
It'd be a hell of a deformity for an actual woman, I'd have thought. The whole thing is insane.

I had to laugh at big Dave getting his cock out in topshop.

Then I had to cry. I mean - really!!

Plus, they did the thing where even if you identify as a man you can't inherit certain titles.

This always causes me to think that the whole thing is bullshit.

What's worrying is statistics on these gender fluid people. They are still as depressed as they initially where. I think they need help for their mental health.

Well I acknowledge that celebrating womanhood is cringe, Satellite, I suppose maybe "embrace" or "acknowledge" would have been better.

I took pains to stress that I was talking about deliberate pregnancy.

I stand by my belief that if someone does not feel that they are a woman then they would not wish to do the one thing that sets women part from men.

and there was me thinking gender fluid was a coy term for menstrual loss and/or semen.

Well technically either parent can take the leave/pay after babies born... it's just that males view looking after babies as woman's work

I can see why transmen keep their uterus if they want to be a parent. Particularly if they are in a relationship with a man. Becoming parents when neither of you have a uterus is a much more difficult process.

TheFallenMadonna: so what part of being a woman are they so uncomfortable with that they feel they are actually a man?

I have no idea. I'm not trans, and I can't explain why I feel like a woman in any way that doesn't reference biology or societal expectations. I do, however, have BILs, who had years of challenge before they became dads to my lovely nephew. A uterus, if either of them had one, however they felt about it, would have been easier in many ways.

Obviously a uterus was involved!! But not one of theirs.

But two gay males (yes?) is very different - they aren't disputing their biological sex.

Obviously. I am just saying that if becoming a parent was very important to someone, they might choose to keep a functioning uterus and go through pregnancy, even if it felt "wrong", for the lifetime of parenthood that would bring.

Given that bearing children is the very essence of womanhood, it does seem odd that someone who is so traumatised by their sexuality that they need to change it through surgery and drugs would want to not only retain their uterus but use it for the ultimate female purpose. Feels like saying I’m anorexic but chocolate cake and rounded hips are really important to me so I’ll continue to eat fifteen cakes daily.

Surely if the idea of retaining your birth gender is so truly abhorrent it gives you body dysmorphia then the idea of bearing a child would be entirely unacceptable?

I'm not sure all women would agree with that idea of "the essence of womenhood"...

And I'm not saying it would be for all transmen. I'm just saying how it could be a pragmatic decision, particularly for someone who is "genderfluid", which I assume, perhaps mistakenly, that aspects of both "maleness" and "femaleness" would be identified with.