Manspreading - biology or entitlement?

[Undercoverbanana]

They are doing it everywhere. At the cinema, on the tube, at the tennis, in the dentists' waiting room. It's not just the legs - it's the arms too.

I am a smallish woman and I understand that a bigger person takes up more room than me, and that men are mostly larger than me. Is it all that junk between their legs that makes them do it? Is it the broader chest that says "I need to spread my elbows over both the arms of this chair and invade your space". Do large breasted women do it too? (I've not noticed - 30E cup here, so wouldn't understand.)

Or is it "I AM A MAN AND SOOOOOO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD"?

So AIBU to think that they could be a bit less entitled?

I’m a woman. I spread, publicly, because it’s more comfy. But I don’t encroach onto anyone else’s space because that would be rude.

A PP above mentioned how entitled people walk in straight lines. I realised a while ago that I spent a lot of time weaving in and out of people who do this - and a completely unscientific poll (by me) suggested around 95% of those straight liners were male. As an experiment, I decided to stop automatically moving out of the way of any man walking towards me (obviously I move if they’re elderly, frail, pushing prams etc etc - I mean apparently able-bodied men who just assume people will get out of their way).

Try it sometime. The number of men who a) don’t even bother to look ahead because lo, the crowds will part for them! - and b) appeared outraged when they realised they were going to have to make the effort to swerve was extraordinary.

I did it for a couple of days. It was hard work.

(Disclaimer - I live in London. Pavement rules may differ elsewhere)

DH weaves and it drives me nuts. I tend to try to strike a balance. With 3 bags, you'll bet I'll asserty right to keep my dodgy hypermobile feet on the flattest bit of pavement, between the rows of cobbles, if you're quite obviously younger, stronger, more stable and less burdened than me and no I bloody won't hop onto the road with my autistic child because you and your friends "need" to walk 3 abreast on a 4" wide pavement.

My worst manspreading incident involved someone who had quite obviously used body spray to mask a lack of washing. I coughed and sneezed rather a lot, as a result.

Entitlement.

You see it in secondary schools as well. Teenage boys will practically walk over female members of staff, but will part like the red sea for the men.

At first I found myself stepping aside and being squashed against a wall, but now I have started walking straight through them, eyes front. They've started moving for me now too.

I think it's got a lot worse since I was younger, which isn't that long ago. People just don't seem to have any awareness of manners and letting others go first.

When I see a manspreader, these days his image morphs into one of those baboons with the big red swollen arses.

I guess it is the human equivalent for some men.

Should I offer a banana or merely continue my journey with a smirky face and sharpened heel?

Orangecrush when I remember I don’t deviate before men either. One yelled at me once. I do have to positively remember to do it though - all that training.

To deal with man spreading now, I put my tote bag on the floor at the border of the seats. It makes them move their feet to ‘their’ spot, so thy have to move their knees closer.

I have also asked men to move up and I usually find they do. One, though, retorted ‘it ain’t gonna happen’, so I moved to the seat opposite. His knees snapped shut when a (plump) man took my old seat. I smirked and he saw.

Entitlement. Definitely.
Whilst I have no doubt that spreading is more comfortable, not doing it is not that uncomfortable that it is painful.
Therefore they are putting their comfort ahead of whoever’s space they are pushing into (usually a woman’s).

Unless they've got baws like bloody balloons, it's entitlement. I have nice strong thighs from years of horse riding so I can put up a pretty good amount of resistance.

It is not entitlement but an attempt to signal dominance which is slightly different. By taking up your space they are dominant over you. Same thing applies to pavement walking.

I am not tall but find eyes up and confident gait gets you through crowds relatively easily. It is about signalling dominance early. Same thing for tube travel. Legs spread means the heavy and pointy edge of my bag will be resting on your leg not mine. They never last in that state for long as the casual assertion of my lack of care for them is clear enough a signal and legs move closed.

It is a sign of a gradual lessening of civility and respect for our fellows that is creeping in.

Definitely not biology.

Probably either smaller than average in a particular area or useless in pleasing in the bedroom.

Sometimes with the pavement thing, I just stop dead. They have to go around me then. I lived In London for 13 years and did the weaving thing, don’t mind a compromise.
With manspreading, I just don’t want to have a strange leg touch mine. I’m a bit sensitive about personal space. Once I had a man stand so close to me when I was sat on a train (hardly anyone else standing so he had loads of room) that I got up and stood myself. He just took my seat, so I don’t know if it was a tactic!

I've rtft and realised I haven't come across this in some time and I think it's because I'm a little older and have retained. When I sit I know there's a crucial few seconds when jostling can happen without aggression - the moment of dominance adjustment. I take my space and be damned anyone who fails to comply because I ignore it. This morning I sat next to a woman on the bus who was reading a paper. Although I initially gave her some of my room, it was a busy bus and her paper reading instantly went up a notch. I immediately moved closer to her under the pretence of getting more fully in to my part of the seat. She moved her paper. It was a matter of seconds. It's been years since a man tried to maintain a seat challenge with me. I'm older though. Maybe that has something to do with the situation in terms of varying ways those boring little asserts of dominance get played out.

It’s sheer arrogance and entitlement. However, I am now done with being silent about this after one too many times being painfully squashed. Whenever I find myself in that situation now, I politely asked “Excuse do you have an enlarged scrotum?” So far, all looked at me perplexed and responded with a confused no, to which I then deftly counter ”Then keep your legs together!” It works every time. And, it can cheer up other long-suffering women on train. One older lady on my other side the last time laughed so hard, she had a coughing fit. I was worried she might bring up a fur ball.

Definitely entitlement. FIL does it but DH and stepson don’t.

When I used to commute for work I would move my bag, either put in on the floor or pick up, and drag it along the offending limb. Not in a playing footsie way, more a ‘if your leg wasn’t in front of me it wouldn’t be bruised now’ kind of way.

TurnipCake

Entitlement

Any man who needs to spread his legs that far apart needs to see a urologist

Teehee!!

TemptressofWaikiki

It’s sheer arrogance and entitlement. However, I am now done with being silent about this after one too many times being painfully squashed. Whenever I find myself in that situation now, I politely asked “Excuse do you have an enlarged scrotum?” So far, all looked at me perplexed and responded with a confused no, to which I then deftly counter ”Then keep your legs together!” It works every time. And, it can cheer up other long-suffering women on train. One older lady on my other side the last time laughed so hard, she had a coughing fit. I was worried she might bring up a fur ball.

Oh my aching sides! Your post is excellent especially the fur ball bit!!

Entitlement.

Next.

Best thread ever. You lot are on fire!!

This has just started happening to my 9yo. My small for her age, very child-like 9yo. It doesn't happen to my 6yo, and when it happens to me I push back, because I'm confident.

I couldn't believe it, but a man actually managed to spread himself so far across his tube seat and into my 9yo's that she felt uncomfortable and came and sat on my lap instead. It was clearly unnecessary for his comfort - I could only interpret it as deeply dodgy.

I recently inserted myself into a tiny gap (maybe 1/3 of a seat) that all other women had rejected - the man huffed and pushed at me all the way to my destination. And then spread out even further when I got off - no-one else dared try it.

Idly musing on whether transwomen man-spread. Or gender fluid people. Or in fact trans men.

Girls are told from tiny to sit nicely. Which means knees together. Are boys?

Agree with the stop dead thing. Usually with a withering look of disdain.

I have noticed a slight reverse situation when I pick up DS2 from school. Semi rural special school with dozens of taxis doing pick ups. Noticed early on that theres 2 of the female escorts who will just stand dead in front of me if I stand in certain places. Last week, one of the kids' big brothers came to collect them and stood in one of those places, belonging to the most aggressive standinfronter. She moved along a few feet and stood there, instead.

Conceding to the man is just ingrained, isn't it?

And I've noticed that the walking thing isn't usually men. That's a big school gate thing which tends to be a clique thing. Elsewhere, it's an age thing. I'm not old enough to be kind to but I'm middle aged enough to not respect as a fellow human being. My most aggressive ever shoulder bump was an 18-19yo woman with a right face on about something. I hadn't even made eye contact, but I was in her way, big time. Most other face offs are with women in their 40s and 50s, just like me. The standing in front thing is slightly older women - happens at bus stations, too. Even empty ones.

Great approach about the enlarged scrotum. Must remember that. I read on MN a few years ago+that someone once said crisply “young man I am a doctor and if you really need to sit like that you should see a doctor”

I just don't move for it. Can end up that our legs are touching and often they will feel uncomfortable with that and move.

The word you need is ‘arrogance’ not ‘entitlement’. It’s not biology. Plenty of men don’t do it.