To be upset at a woman kicking my friendly 4 month old golden retriever?

[Marshmallowpops]

I am so upset. I've just come back from a walk with my puppy. She's a lovely friendly golden retriever. I've been letting her off leash in the local park as the trainer said it's best to do it early. She is really friendly and loves to play with other dogs- she often meets them all for a play date in the park in the morning- there are always lots of dogs off leash in this park. Normally when there aren't other dogs she trots along beside me, sometimes going off to sniff but coming back when called. She's not too bothered about people but will say hello and sit down (not jump up) as she is trained to do. Today it was dark at 8pm and I let her off as normal, she just trots along and comes back when called. But today she saw two women, one with a baby in a carrier) so went over to say hello (she's normally not bothered but today was a little hyper), but she just trotted over like she does, really gently and not aggressive at all. I said to the woman 'don't worry she won't jump up she'll just sit down and say hello', but before my puppy had even reached the woman, the woman started kicking her away! I could understand if the dog seemed aggressive but she's the sweetest thing. She kicked her repeatedly, my puppy came back to me, I put her on the lead, and the other woman started having a go at me asking if I thought it was acceptable for my dog to go over and attack her baby. She was smoking a cigarette. I wanted to say that is going to cause more harm to the baby than my dog ever would but I didn't. I know of course that as a mother you are very protective of your baby but I just would never attack a friendly dog. Maybe they've had bad experiences in the past. I'm just very upset. I know not everyone likes dogs but that park is so dog busy that I thought everyone was used to it by now. I think I'll keep her on a lead at night until she's really 100% with recall. She's about 90% now. So I know there will be people who say I'm in the wrong letting her off but if she had an aggressive bone in her body I would never let her off.

She was obviously wrong to kick the puppy but your puppy really shouldn't be off the lead in a public area if the recall isn't 100% relatable and the puppy is trained to not approach people. If the trainer has advised this I recommend finding a few trainer it's very dangerous advice!

You said it was dark and the puppy was hyper, it may have looked aggressive to her, she may not have been able to see it's a puppy etc.

I have the most lovely, friendly, people loving 9 stone Rottweiler. If he bounded up to you, in the dark, whilst you were holding your baby, would you wait to see how friendly he is? Or believe me when I shout that he's friendly? Or would you react in fear?

It’s a 4 month old puppy.
They have to be allowed off the lead in order to learn recall in quiet areas. The op made a call that it was quiet the liklihood of harm coming to someone was extremely low and if your intimidated by an andrex puppy, you probably need some help.... way to go about teaching you child kindness to animals kicking a puppy.
Who has a small baby out in a park at 8.00pm on a winter night anyways.
The woman sounds unhinged and smoking is far more a nuisance, antisocial and harmful than a baby Labrador.
I wouldn’t worry about it, she sounds like she’s got a few issues if her own.

sorry but i despise "friendly" dogs. i dont want it called away from me, i want it to not come near me in the first place. x10000 if i were holding a baby

i do not condone kicking an animal which is not attacking, i should add

I love dogs and encourage my son to love them too, but my husband doesn't like them, and I can imagine him kicking a dog if it got too close to our son. I don't like it, but that is how he would react to what he sees as a threat. I do think the lady was being unreasonable, but I also think your puppy should've been on a lead because there are people out there who are fearful of dogs.

Kicking a puppy isn’t acceptable in my book. At least here in the US a dig is given the same legal rights as a family member.

Yes that means if someone attacks your dogs you can defend them with force.

The ironic things is that this woman may well have thought she was defending her dog with force. Some people with a fear of dogs will be quite irrational, i.e. Not realise a young puppy is unlikely to be aggressive. Saying that I used to have a young dog that from the minute I got him at six months old was aggressive as anything and if had been allowed off the lead would have attacked people....so being a puppy doesn't always mean they can't be aggressive.

I'm a massive dog lover but have kicked out at a dog which wouldn't leave my much smaller dog alone. Not just being over friendly, but things were starting to get nasty and my dog was screaming in fear.

It is the owners responsibility to keep their dog away from other people. And I'm sorry OP but you sound like a pita dog owner. You said the dog was trotting over and you were saying to the woman "oh he's ok, he will sit and say hello." Well that's the wrong response. At that point you should have been trying to recall him and failing that chasing after him. There's nothing worse than a dog owner who thinks their dog is "the sweetest thing" and allows such behaviour. And you're teaching your dog that it's ok to go up to strangers which is totally the wrong message.

To give a balanced perspective, I find smokers and dog owners almost equally anti social and I wish we had a decent amount of pleasant outside space where neither were allowed for the rest of us to enjoy .

And to reiterate what many people have said, I don't care how friendly any dog is - I do not want it anywhere near me!

'To give a balanced perspective, I find smokers and dog owners almost equally anti social and I wish we had a decent amount of pleasant outside space where neither were allowed for the rest of us to enjoy'

I'm with you on that :)

dog owners have dogs for their own amusement and gratification, they are an indulgence...a kind of living toy.
Fine if that what they want to do but to other people a dog is at best just an annoying pointless thing that gets in the way and leaves shit in it's wake
at worst it's a dangerous and frightening animal on the loose

Right, and what do you think a baby is then? I'm sure you'll bleat on about how they're neccessary for the continuation of the species blah blah but look around you, we don't really need more humans and to be fair, someone smoking with a baby sling is an unlikely success story.

Puppies have to learn recall at some point, so they will have to be off their lead at some point. Until dogs are banned in Britain (a long time waiting - Parliament is almost certainly comprised of a majority of dog owners), dog haters will have to tolerate the odd errant puppy.

Would it have been ok if the mother wasn’t smoking

Keep your dog under control.

Hi again, yes i am trying to train her not to approach strangers and normally she doesn't unless they are with a dog. And I can see she's getting better each day. First time I let her off I had to put her back on leash when we were close to people as she looked like she was going to go over. Then she sits. Then gradually started trusting her more, let her off and then she started going up to people but sitting down about a metre away from them as I've trained her to sit when she wants something- obviously she wants to be petted so it's someone else's choice if they do. But now most of the time she just walks straight past them (granted I am often making a big effort to keep attention on me with treats/verbal command), but I'm hoping her progress will continue but I need to have her off leash in order to do this. Just before she went up to this woman I had recalled her and she was sitting for a treat, then I saw that she'd seen them, I was saying 'stay stay' but then she went so it really did take me by surprise as normally she wouldn't. So now I know to just put her on the leash at this point, I never imagined these people would react that way but now I realise that they will, so again that was my naivety.

Yes realise I made a poor choice of language - 'before she had even reached the woman she started kicking her away'- I said this because all I saw was my puppy trotting (it seemed like trotting to me but maybe this woman perceived it as something else who knows) up to them and didn't really see the approach- it all happened really quickly as I say but I'm pretty sure my puppy stopped as she normally does about 1m away, then maybe the first foot movement was a 'shoo', when my puppy was not extremely close to them yet , then my puppy, being a playful thing, obviously thought the woman was playing, then went up closer, then there was definitely a kick as i saw my puppy moving /being forced away, but no yelp thankfully. Then I think she went back or came back to me I can't really remember as again I was in shock/worried about her. At this point I was running up and said something like 'she's okay there's really no need to do that'.

I go to the park for a quick walk around 7.30 to train her, then her little play time at around 10am , then a walk around the block at around 2.30 and the evening walk at 8pm. Because I trust her to come back eventually 100% of the time (even if she does go over to say hello to a dog once she's said hello then recall is successful -that's why I say 90% ) I never considered it dangerous to have her off leash at 8pm and saw it as an extra training opportunity. But after reading some replies I understand it can be more scary in the dark. Just I thought these people were aware of our presence and could see I was training her. Also going to be much more careful with letting her approach other dogs. I was just taking this as given while she's a puppy as lots of people say this happens. But I can see some owners aren't happy with this. So more intense training on that shall begin..

Thanks again and I do appreciate all replies and am taking the constructive criticism.

Wow the dog haters are out in force here
You are doing really well training your puppy op.
Most reasonable people can identify a puppy, recognise that labs are a friendly breed and key point, know that to kick a dog is the most stupid reaction which will potentially elicit the dog's fight response. Numpty woman.
I really think basic animal awareness issues should be covered in PSHE lessons at school.

Wow the dog haters are out in force here
You are doing really well training your puppy op.
Most reasonable people can identify a puppy, recognise that labs are a friendly breed and key point, know that to kick a dog is the most stupid reaction which will potentially elicit the dog's fight response. Numpty woman.
I really think basic animal awareness issues should be covered in PSHE lessons at school.

She's a bitch. You don't kick puppies or any animal unless they are attacking you. Would she like it if someone kicked her child? She will also end up raising a child who is petrified of dogs. I see them all the time - cringeing away from our labradors or even squealing when the dogs are doing nothing wrong and are also on a lead. Dogs have more to fear from humans than the other way around. Some people are pathetic.

And sorry to mention that she was smoking I just really really HATE smoking and don't know why anyone would do it considering the health risks. Especially with a baby. And the thing about smoking being more dangerous than my puppy popped into my head hence the mention. My post was not incredibly well thought out, I wrote it soon after returning and I was very emotional, hence the poor language choices. She was also wearing what I was pretty sure were pyjama bottoms in a public park at 8pm but I didn't see the point of mentioning that as I wasn't trying to frame her as 'chavvy' or whatever as some people seem to think (also when puppy has some excess energy just before bed time I do take her down the street and have occasionally just go out in pyjamas, wellies and a coat!! But much later than 8pm and not where anyone is likely to see me!)

Right better go and walk/train puppy, off leash but with more care around other people!!

Some people are pathetic

I'd say some people don't like dogs. And it's pretty pathetic in my book to have an animal which you can't control and be unable to consider that some people don't feel exactly the same way about it as you do. Some people are frightened of dogs. Some people just don't like them.

Also she's a golden retriever not a labrador. I specifically chose this breed as I wanted a placid gentle dog who wouldn't be too bothered/excited around people (my job involves lots of people and children coming into the house and my puppy is really calm with them all now). Yes I do agree she's not tiny though and not obviously a puppy unless you know about dogs- she's about the size of a fully grown Springer spaniel.

I really better go now- reading all these posts is making me late for her walk!

So you're still going to allow your puppy off the leash?

Ultimately the dog is your responsibility. To leave him in that situation where he could get hurt is your responsibility

I have had dogs including Labradors. So am not a dog hater.

But I firmly believe dogs should not be off lead unless they have perfect recall.

You don't know who these people are your dog approached. If they like dogs, have a phobia, seen a dog attack etc. And likewise they don't know what this animal is approaching them: friendly, dangerous, unpredictable.

You're saying this woman was wrong to defend her baby and herself. Whilst I would never condone hurting an animal - you put the dog in this position.

There is an annoying man near me who lets his retriever run free as they walk. She is a gorgeous dog and clearly very friendly and just wants to be petted by everyone. He is miles away shouting - she's very friendly.
My Dd is terrified. The dog bounds up towards her and the animal is taller than her. The excitement comes across as scary. She cowers behind me and I have to block the dog with my pushchair. The man is fucking useless. Miles away and saying she just wants a cuddle. Guess what, my dd doesn't want a cuddle with an animal that towers over her and I hate that the owner appears to give no shits about our choice.

I would reconsider taking your puppy off leash in a public area. If you are getting training maybe they would have some ideas of enclosed places to practice recall

I have 2 friends who are terrified of dogs. not just scared. They would probably have reacted similarly.

you love dogs, fair enough but you cannot unleash your dog at the general public and expect everyone to be just like you.

I hope you puppy is ok but you really need to reconsider your attitude.

It does sound like the OP really wasn’t expecting to see a baby in the park at 8pm so was taken by surprise. Her puppy’s behaviour took her by surprise as she doesn’t normally approach strangers, unless they have dogs.

My DDs used to be afraid of dogs, so I really wouldn’t have liked this. I know retrievers are friendly dogs but they didn’t. All they could see was a big dog coming towards them.

You need to watch your dog more carefully if she’s off the lead and put her on a leash if she’s over excited, which you say she was on this occasion.

I hate that the owner appears to give no shits about our choice.

This is it, isn't it? I don't like dogs. Don't mind at all if you choose to have one....as long as it doesn't come near me. I don't care if it's friendly. I don't want to engage with it. I don't want to be forced to engage with it. My DD is very friendly, but that doesn't automatically mean that you should be expected to put up with her wiping her nose on your legs. It's just about basic courtesy and respect for other people. Good manners.

To the three previous posters- I plan on continuing the training off leash, she is NEver going to have 100% perfect recall if I can't train her off leash, as many pps have said. She does a very nice heel and occasionally goes off to sniff- then I recall. Now I realise whenever there are other people/dogs around, I should put her back on lead unless she shows absolutely no interest, and not let her approach strangers. So I have changed my attitude. There are several big grassy areas where lots of people play fetch with their dogs (the park has a fenced off children's play area where dogs aren't allowed, the entrance of which is very close to the entrance of the park- so if any child was terrified of dogs I would not expect them to be wondering around the park considering the are LOADS of dogs off leash around this park). When she's playing fetch she's 100% focused on that and never goes up to people who are walking around the grassy areas. So I'm not going to just stop playing fetch with her because of what happened/because of people on here!

I have reconsidered my attitude and as previously mentioned I plan to not let her off in the dark as I understand other people might be more scared in the dark and she is quite big and this woman probably didn't realise she was just a puppy. So yes I can see it from the other woman's perspective more now and I never called her a monster! I realise she was protecting her baby, I knew this all along, just didn't think it was really nessesary- instinctively if it was me I would have just turned my back on the dog (the baby was in a sling on the woman's front) rather than kicking it away! Just the whole attitude afterwards was really horrible and it made me wonder whether this attitude is held by lots of people. After reading this I've realised it is, hence why I'm not going to allow my dog off leash at night, and also be even more careful during day. But I'm not going to never allow her off leash as she loves to play fetch and likes being off leash on countryside walks.

Also Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers are two separate breeds although they both belong to retriever family.