To feel really frustrated that so many drivers don't know this?

[SharkiraSharkira]

I am a biker (as in motorcycle).

I'm a member of a few biking related pages on fb and recently my feed is inundated with videos and articles about bikers being assaulted by car drivers or run over/knocked off their bikes due to car drivers not looking or seeing them or even intentionally. Some of them have been really shocking!

One thing that seems to be coming up time and time again is drivers bemoaning bikers 'illegally overtaking' or 'pushing in' or 'riding between the lanes'. All of these things are perfectly legal for bikers and it is called filtering - it is used to make progress through traffic and some believe it is actually safer for bikers, being vulnerable road users. And yet 90% of the drivers comments on these videos are basically saying it is the bikers fault they got run over/maimed/attacked because they 'shouldn't have been between the lanes'. We are allowed to be!

Aibu to find it very frustrating that SO many drivers don't seem to know that this is legal?

Obviously there are always idiots that ride unsafely and I'm not referring to these people, rather those who follow the rules and filter legally and safely and still get abuse for it.

No. It means passing by slower or stationary vehicles.

Where is it illegal?

I didn't realize it was legal but a few years ago a motorcycle was riding through the lanes approaching traffic lights at a motorway junction and clean took my wing mirror off. Cost me money to replace and put me in a vulnerable position for the rest of the journey as I could use that mirror.

I always thought it was one of the perks of biking and realise it’s legal in slow/stationary traffic. Yes, it means being careful but I should have my wits about me when on the road. I never owned a bike myself but yield for bikers because they have incredible power to overtake.

I did not know it was legal - everyday is a school day!

However some of the cyclists I see are weaving in and out between lorries, vans, big cars, I just think they’ve got really poor judgement, it doesn’t look safe at all.

Legal or not you’re going to come off so much worse physically. Is it worth it to get a few cars ahead?

My instructors taught it as a safety manoeuvre - most good biking habits are taught to make sure you stay alive and safe.

It was made crystal clear though that it's a low speed manoeuvre and you have to be really vigilant.

It was explained to me that it's safer to get out of a queue as the type of minor rear-end shunt which is common in that type off traffic isn't usually minor if you're on a bike.

Disclaimer: there are some bikers and some car drivers without any consideration for others who make any motoring riskier than necessary

No. It means passing by slower or stationary vehicles.

Can you explain to me in what case then, in your view, a cyclist does not have right of way?

Filtering is certainly illegal in the US, where I l first learned to drive. Someone upthread said the same of France. It's something I would have previously associated with driving in a banana republic before I arrived in the UK.

Recommendations for filtering are that you only do it if the traffic flow is 20 or less and that you don't go more than 20 miles an hour faster.

So in traffic moving at 20, you could be filtering at 40. That's easily doable safely.

One thing though - it's not cars that are dangerous when you're filtering, it's gaps. Cars always try to nip into gaps & rarely look when they do so, I'll often hang back from a gap when filtering & only go through the middle when the cars are next to each other as you're much less likely nip over into another car....

Also, we can often tell what drivers are going to do before they start to think about it properly - your subconscious small movements make the car move & after a few years riding you can read the signals...

Is it worth it to get a few cars ahead?

It knocks an hour off my journey to & from London compared to the same in a car, bike is exempt Congestion Charge & there is free Bike Parking all over London.....

Why wouldn't I ride a bike? It's miserable in the winter though, which sort of equals out the perks....

There's a set of traffic lights in a nearby town where my DH always drives as close to the kerb as he can to stop cyclists undertaking. We've seen so many near misses where they try to cycle ahead when cars are indicating to turn left.

Legal? Maybe. Stupid? Absolutely.

I had to explain filtering to my dh as he hadn't realised it was legal. Still see a lot of bikes going too fast. In slow (under 10mph) on motorway. My dh indicated to move across, checked mirrors, started to move and checked again and luckily had the reflexes to move back in as a motorbike doing well over 70 suddenly appeared and zoomed past. He knew he was wrong as he lifted a hand in apology. If my dh hadn't checked again and moved back in that biker would be a red smear on the ground he was going so fast he'd have gone flying if he'd hit the car.

As with all driving, you only remember the idiots.

Although I think one reason car drivers get tetchy with bikes (and I've done it myself) is that you sit there pootling along slowly, listening to the radio, going dead straight so no need to check the mirrors & then a bike goes past & makes you jump! And your initial reaction is "f*ck me!"

Whereas if we were checking our mirrors we'd have seen them coming & not been made to jump....

Even if it is legal, it still worried me when I see bikes doing this.

One was doing it in a dual carriageway the other week and I had held back a little to make a gap for a car which was indicating to move into my lane. I saw the car driver look in his mirror and start to move over - nothing wrong with that.

Unfortunately, he could not have seen the motorbike coming up the inside of my car which decided to dive into the gap and nearly caused an accident. Car driver and me both had to brake sharply while bike went off seemingly oblivious!

Yes, car drivers need to watch for bikes (I do all the time) but some bikers really don't help themselves!

Another one is when they cut up the inside of HGV's - even using mirrors, if they are in the HGV drivers blind spot that can't see them! They even have notices on the back of lorries saying don't do it but some still do.

Dressed- then your dh is an utter wanker and shoumd loookout for himself instead of trying to rule the world. Wankers lime him make my journey to work much more difficult than it should be.

Filtering and undertaking traffic o a push bike remains legal in the UK. If you wish to have such things not part of your life then fuck off back to the US. Or emigrate to France.

On the way in just now i had a car pull out in front of me. Just not using eyes never mind mirrors.

Thanks for the advise car drivers but I will use my own knowledge road sense and bike handling skills.

Legal or not you’re going to come off so much worse physically. Is it worth it to get a few cars ahead?
You seem to be suggesting that people should not ride motorbikes in a way which is legal and safe if other car users act responsibly. I'm sure that can't be what you were trying to say though?

Unfortunately, he could not have seen the motorbike coming up the inside of my car
If he 'could not have seen the motorbike' he has no right to be driving. In order to drive you need to be able to see, motorbikes are not invisible, if anyone is moving into a space they need to check the space is clear. Part of driving is about anticipating road conditions and predicting what all other users might do, for example below....

Also, we can often tell what drivers are going to do before they start to think about it properly - your subconscious small movements make the car move & after a few years riding you can read the signals...

There seems to be a perception that motorbike riders are invisible or responsible for other road user's lack of ability or willingness to use their fucking eyes!

Those signs on trucks should read " Cyclists stay back. Coz I am such a shit driver I shouldn't be on the road."

Those signs on trucks should read " Cyclists stay back. Coz I am such a shit driver I shouldn't be on the road."

I don't know, I think the left hand sides of lorres should be covered in 3 foot spike personally. I've sat behind lorries that are indicating left at lights & watched cyclists literally squeezing up the side with their shoulders brushing the lorry.

I don't go up the inside on my motorbike & I've got the speed to get ahead of the lorry before it turns, cyclists have to faff on the pedals, wobble a bit & then start to move - by which time the lorry is already turning left & it's another self inflicted death.....

It is only legal if they are following the highway code like every other road user. No one is meant to overtake anyone on a continuous white line yet motor cyclists seem to think the rules don't apply to them. It's dangerous and if you're going to act stupidly on the road , it is only a matter of time before you get caught out. A lot of drivers don't use their mirrors correctly so travelling up the side of them is a risky move. The bottom line is there are too many people dying on roads and too many families left without loved ones as a result.

I’m tired of seeing people on motorbikes drive like idiots and then pointing the finger at car drivers. I hate the “think bike” campaign, motorbike users need to “think car”.

They “filter” at high speed on the slow moving motorway near me, without any thought for what is going on around them.

daily you know very well that it’s much more complex than If he 'could not have seen the motorbike' he has no right to be driving.

Yes some car drivers don’t check mirrors well enough.
But then some motorbike drivers are also making it really hard for people to see them. They swish around cars, going on the inside, behind, inside again or maybe on the right where ever they can see a gap. They also can go fast, much faster than cars.
And you end up with the ‘where the fuck has that moto come from!?!’ Feeling.
It’s a behaviour in the road that is very different than the other cars have (they are much more ‘steady’ as in they are behind you, maybe on your right, on your left but never appearing out of nowhere. They are also going at aboutbthe same speed than you). Andnthat makes them much harder to ‘spot’, remeberingbthat most car drivers are NOT motorbike drivers so have no idea how you drive and what sort driving behaviour can be expected (are they more likely to carry in, go right, left, come out of xx place) - which of course you do with a car. (Just think about how you can tell someone is going to turn even when they haven’t out their indicator on. You just ‘know’ from the way they are driving.)

I think it’s really too easy to put all the blame on car drivers. Motorbike drivers are often not helping themselves either nor taking into account the likely car behaviour. (See my comment how we all adjust our driving when a car looks like they are going to turn despite to indicators. If cars can handle that, why can’t bike to do too?)

Dressed- then your dh is an utter wanker and shoumd loookout for himself instead of trying to rule the world. Wankers lime him make my journey to work much more difficult than it should be.

This utter wanker waited with a badly injured cyclist who was knocked off his bike at the lights by a car which had been indicating left. He phoned the family and the ambulance. The wanker was the cyclist who did a very stupid thing. Car indicating left? Don't wait in its blind spot and then go straight ahead. You could be off work for months.

I'm glad your journey is delayed if it stops you being a total fuckwit.

I’m tired of seeing people on motorbikes drive like idiots and then pointing the finger at car drivers.

I've had people in cars pull out on me whilst reading the paper on their Ipad, whilst getting a coffee, texting & for no good reason at all.

It's swings & roundabouts - there are shit drivers everywhere, I tend to see most of them in big metal boxes full of distractions weaving their way down the roads daydreaming away.

Hard to do any of the above on a bike & you always have to be in control of it just to keep it upright so we tend to have a bit more concentration going on.

Also, if you're driving at 50 & I go up the middle at 60 it's not actually any different to you not moving & me going through at 10 - the speed difference is the same.

It may make you jump if you're not aware of what's going on around you, but it's actually pretty darned safe - most motorcyclists are knocked off or killed at low speeds or junctions, it's extremely rare on a motorway moving at normal speeds....

Never, it really annoys me when people always trot out that same stupid line in response to the 'think bike' campaign. The vast, vast majority of bike riders are ALWAYS 'thinking car', as in CONSTANTLY. You literally cannot ride anywhere safely on a bike if you don't. Here is a list of some of the other things that bikers also have to look out for and make adjustments to their riding for that car drivers don't and therefore might not notice:

Diesel/fuel on the road
Wind
Rain
Gravel/grit
Sand
Mud
Leaves
Potholes (even small ones)
Manhole/drain covers (especially in the wet)

I could go on.

Yes, there are undoubtedly twats who ride like idiots and endanger themselves and others with their bad road behaviour. But those people would probably behave the same way when driving car a, it isn't the bike's fault. You can't say that no one should perform perfectly safe and legal road manoeuvres just because some people don't do it right. That would be like saying no one should drive a car because some people don't use their mirrors at all correctly.

I'm shocked at all these bikers kicking cars and breaking wing mirrors off. Firstly thats incredibly dangerous to you, secondly it's criminal damage. I can see why so many people have dash cams now! I'd like to think of a few of that sort landed with points and a hefty bill. There is no excuse for it what ever the behavior of the car driver

I agree with you there PP, someone's poor driving behaviour does not entitle you to damage their property to teach them a lesson. You wouldn't be allowed to kick someone's front door in! Behaviour like that from bikers makes us all look like aggressive twats and just make drivers hate us more.

I'm glad your journey is delayed if it stops you being a total fuckwit.

It's not your role to police it - and I'd argue that doing the unexpected (like pulling over far to the left) is more likely to cause problems for other road users than just sticking in your lane...

So your husband should worry about his driving & check his blind spots.....