DD has not settled into secondary school

[winterstail]

I feel the happy, outgoing and loving little girl from just last summer has vanished.

DD has always been fantastic. Keen, polite and affectionate. She was so excited to go up to secondary but it has all gone wrong.

For one thing, DD has struggled with homework and recording it. The teachers mostly give out worksheets and DD lost a couple and got an after school detention for one hour. I've no issue with the detention but the problem is the after school detention seems to serve all 'crimes' - homework and fighting and smoking and swearing and refusing to hand a phone overeviews. So DD was in after school detention with older kids who intimidated her and frightened her. This made her cry in the detention and the teacher told her that it should be a lesson to her. The other kids then followed her home chanting abuse. I complained about this to the school which made them make concerned noises but they were very keen to talk about what led DD to get a detention, not an eleven year old being frightened by 14/15 year olds.

Anyway, as she has now had 3 after school detentions she had to spend a day in isolation which really upset her and also means she can't go on the pantomime trip.

DD feels the teachers think she is a 'naughty' student, she is often singled out in assembly which humiliated her.

She has been self harming, and tried to throw herself down the stairs last night to break her leg so she wouldn't have to go in Monday.

What can I Do? I can't send her back can I?

Don't send her in.

DS started secondary this year and he too had a detention for not handing in his homework (fair enough). When he did his detention, there were two rooms, one for the younger pupils and one for the older, so they didn't mix at all.

Your DD's mental health is way, WAY more important than anything else right now.

the school sounds really really bad.
there must be other options.

fwiw dd's school has a late homework policy which is

1. hand into school office the next day by 8.30am
2. if this isn't done you have to go to a lunchtime supervised work session that day where you have to do the work. surely this is a better scheme? idea is the homework isn't allowed to build up and any issues doing the homework is solved immediately.

and those who have forgotten a lot of things this term of yr7 are in an "organisation group" where they are helped.

detentions are for bad behaviour not forgetting/losing a bloody worksheet.

The bullying needs addressing. You need to speak to the school about this.

Regarding the homework, but your DD a pritt stick so she can glue in her homework in her book as soon as she gets it and not lose it.

God - it is so cruel - OK to be punished for being forgetful?! Thank goodness that does not apply to me or I would be in some sort of permanent house detention! It is unspeakable that we accept that our children are treated in this way - no wonder they rebel and reject education - who can blame them?

And as for her self-harming - not to be ignored. Keep her out of school for goodness sake if you value her life and her future mental health. Who else can protect her from this cruelty? Where else can she turn but to those who love her?

Definitely not overreacting, your poor daughter. The school seem very heavy handed and don't seem to differentiate between newbie mistakes and more serious behaviour issues.

I would be writing a letter / email as suggested above.

Hope things improve

What a horrible school. Please don’t make her go back. Time to find a school that has a clue about teenagers!

You need to take her to your GP if she is self harming and throwing herself down the stairs, they are red flag behaviours that cannot be ignored.

Call them first thing tomorrow.

Bloody hell, what an awful school! Ours does give homework detentions - but not for a first offence unless Yr 9 and above. Below that there's warning, lunchtime detention, after school detention - and pastoral support too.

This school is a failure.

Ds school only does after school detentions as a last resort. That was a huge deciding factor in sending her there. Poor kid sounds terrified with good reason! You need to speak to head of year asap and don’t send her in until you have done so.

Sounds hideous op.

Some issues could be helped (if you have the funds to do so) by:

1. get a second cheap pair of school shoes to use if she left hers at school (e.g. Asda £10).

2. if she gets another detention, could you be hovering a couple of streets away in a car to drive her back? Ditto if she finishes late for some other reason?

3. do you know any of the parents of the friends in her class that you would be able to call if she lost or forgot a sheet of homework? Most people could take a photo on their phone and whatsapp it to you so you could print it out and she could then do it. If you have a Printer. Or if your dc has a phone could she ask a classmate herself?

These things shouldn't be necessary and the school sounds barbaric. You are doing the right thing to keep her off. It sounds like it's destroying her. Ask her what else you could do to stop these penalties she is incurring as well. You could take her yo panto as a family. Poor thing :(

Sounds an awful school. I’d go in and speak to the head of year about this don’t bother with emails.
They need to be told what the school is doing to her mental health and whilst you understand their policies you can’t stand for this and she can’t come back to this school while she’s so bad.
Tbh I’d have spoken to them about the school shoes knowing what the third detention would bring but it’s still not too late.
Go to your doctor and get all of this logged.

School sounds terrible. Punishment is disproportionate to crime. I'd explain to the head of year how their sanctions have massively effected your child's mental health. I'd suggest that presumably this wasn't their intention, but this is the reality. And then ask them what they are going to do about it. Depending on what they say, I'd either move her after making an official complaint or see how they can help your dd. Presumably your dd isn't the only child in the school struggling with organisation.

Yes also agree to speak to HOY

I am so pleased that you are not sending her in tomorrow.
You definitely need to speak with the HOY, go to Headteacher if no joy from them.
My Yr 7 DS (and also yr 9 one sometimes), has struggled a bit with remembering shoes/kit/books, it is a big step up from primary.
The school sounds very draconian, I would never give a year 7 pupil an after school detention for any of those things. It is clear she needs help with organisation, not being scared half to death.
Keep her off until the matter is sorted. Poor girl.

Everyone saying the school sounds really bad- I've found the 'best' comprehensive schools are just like this- have zero tolerance for missed homework, forgetting a pencil, missing your tie or whatever.

The good thing is that this exceptionally rigid set of punishments sets out to the very naughty and bad behaved children what will happen and it does seem to lower the incidents of skiiving, forgetting homework or equipment.

The bad side of this is that well-behaved lovely children get terrified by the regime and end up panicking and stressed about getting demerits and detentions- the very things the difficult kids don't give a shit about!

My dd's school is like this and it's gone from poor to nearly outstanding. I hate it and think it's completely over the top, and there's little flexibility, although her school does sound better as there's lots of 'rewards' for doing well, merits etc.

That said, I find these type of schools like military academies and for lovely well-behaved children who are having a bit of difficulty organizing themselves early on in the first year of secondary, it's too much. It sounds like it has fundamentally altered how your dd sees herself.

I'd be in the school speaking to the Head of Year about how they are going to make your dd feel safe and the self-harming immediately, and I would consider moving her to another school if they prove inflexible or unable to see her good qualities.

My dd was also in tears a lot for the first month. Luckily she's quite organized and the homework is set online so we can easily look together if she gets upset/stressed. I think these systems of discipline are based around the needs of the poorly behaved children and assume all are like this, and don't take account of the mental stress this can have on some new and/or anxious children.

I'm agree with you about detention, my dd went through a phase 2 yr ago and would constantly be sent to detention after school or be removed from class and sent to a room, it was like some sort of badge of honor and the stuff she told me they got up to without a teacher there I was

Luckily she got sick of it and stopped.

There is churn in y7 as people find the realities of secondary and swap around a bit.
You would have a good case to appeal to a full school on grounds of your DDs mental health if you can get a professional to back you up.
If you decide to apply to other schools and need to appeal on being turned down, pop over to the Secondary board as there are appeals experts there to help you.

Do you have a copy of the h/w timetable OP? What worked for us was me checking nightly what homework had been set, and ensuring it was done, and that the sheets for it were all in place. I also went through the planner and made sure that ds had packed his rucksack with all the necessary clobber for the next day. This was done before bed and put by the front door so he could just grab it and go in the morning.

Ds was disorganised, but is now doing his MA, and survived living in student houses and looking after himself during his BA. The scaffolding needs to come from home as well as school. It takes time, but eventually they start sorting themselves out.

Wow! Mine get homework stamps a few too many and they go to catchup clubs
Shoes (what's that about?) mine have go in in trainers when theirs have been soaked and not dried completely - it's a non issue

Seriously move her and put in a complaint in writing

Put it this way, if you arrived in work in the 'wrong shoes' under your desk, would you expect a manager to concern himself with it?

For all the bad things about ds's previous very strict private school when his shoes went missing during a play rehearsal he was allowed to wear his trainers for a week until he found them.

I've found the grammar school I know as well is slightly more relaxed about this stuff. I think that's because the majority of children are well behaved there and so giving a little leeway is less of an issue, and having detention there isn't terrifying, even if it isn't great.

The schools with zero tolerance can just be too much for some children. I would consider a move. I seriously did with my dd, but she didn't run into as many problems, and seems to like the social side of it. I find these ridiculous reward/punishment schemes are very common now in schools trying to improve or with high levels of disruptive pupils. It's terrifying for a 11 year old girl who has always been well behaved to date.

I would probably start her somewhere else for a fresh start, and help her with the homework. Some children require more scaffolding and assistance than others with this- one of mine did, the other was self-sufficient almost immediately.

The other thing you can do is get them to do the homework immediately the day they get it- so if you run into difficulties, then they have time to approach the teacher or go to a catchup/extra class. My dd's school gives all the emails out of the teachers and pupils are welcome to email them directly- one of my dd's couldn't print something out so emailed her teacher about it a couple of days before due. So, they get used to communicating if there are issues.

Sounds like this school is all stick and no carrot, and fundamentally now, it's all about improving your dd's mental health.

I work in a fairly strict school OP, and when I started reading, I admit I was thinking "three detentions and isolation already? There must be something more to her behaviour, surely." but actually no, I see that the school is just completely shit. Isolation for leaving shoes in a changing room ffs. Like I said, my school is notorious for expecting a lot of the students, but that would be a complete non issue

I saw a girl being sent to isolation at ds's new school as I waiting for a senco meeting. She had a non uniform hoody on instead of her blazer. The teacher spoke to her in an understanding manner just ok - you know you're not wearing uniform so you have to go there but it didn't seem like she was being punished as such.

This is a comp in an area of some deprivation/social issues.

Treating kids like human being has much better outcomes usually.

I would definitely keep her off until at a minimum a better solution if found if she's self harmed.

I would put what has happened down in writing and that it has led to her self harming and request an urgent meeting with the school and e-mail it for the attention of HoY but to with a copy to be given to the Headteacher. Then phone to arrange a meeting (I just prefer a written record of everything).

Secondaries are very heavy on detentions nowadays and I have also had a very happy, well behaved girl start school in y7 and after being initially happy just get worn down by the 2 hours homework and detentions for every minor little thing (though ours gives first warnings so she's just had warnings and one detention I got overturned). Ours would give detentions for homework but in a y7 one not whole school and you get an hours detention on the sixth one in half a term not a day isolation which seems totally inappropriate. I'm not sure about arriving not in school shoes, possibly would. Ours does have a first warning system but that only helps a little bit though it maybe possible she's had first warnings for forgetting homework so wouldn't bother arguing that.

With the school I would keep her off until she's mentally well enough to go and you've found a solution. You could consider getting her put under the senco for special needs, you don't need any behaviour or educational needs for this, it can cover just emotional needs of which self harm would most definitely be one. Not totally sure how it works in secondary but in primary my other child is on that and his needs are assessed each term and he has a special plan called an IEP all teachers are supposed to follow. Something like that may help, there's definitely a senco in secondary and she will now. My daughter's best friend in secondary at another school has been given counselling via their school for SS banning her Mum from contact etc so there must be access to help. I was concerned about my daughter's emotional health, have spoken to the school, initially they ignored but then phoned and spoke to 2 lovely admin ladies, a lovely form tutor and a rather unsympathetic HoY who said they had data on her. But I managed to get her detention reversed and she's on peer support. She's very grumpy with me as she does have any problems but is now talking to the y12 about the problem she doesn't have. Unfortunately the y12 told her the homework just gets worse and the teachers still don't explain anything but at least its meant she's been flagged up. My daughter though was just moaning, seemed unhappy and asking to change schools - with self harming I would push for a different level of solution like counselling etc. I would also seriously consider changing schools though do talk to the schools first and see how they would deal with it as most are quite detention heavy now.

I would also maybe go to the doctors and see what support they can offer likely to be very little but at least get put on their 12 month waiting list before it worsens.