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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is discrimination

679 replies

Hiptrip · 11/11/2017 09:47

I work in a 365 days a year industry. My colleagues and I, have to provide cover over Christmas.

As I worked over Christmas and New Year last year, I booked and was promised this year off. I have this in writing.

Two colleagues have announced that they can't get childcare, and now management have come back to me and said I have to work. (Single, no kids was planning to have fun with friends and family. Shouldn't have mentioned it in my break at work.)

I have now received a written directive that my leave is cancelled, with the threat of disciplinary if I don't turn up.

No unions here, but what are my chances of claiming constructive dismissal if I don't go to work?

We are a team of twelve and those with families, who are rostered to work have a month to sort themselves out, as does everyone else. Why should it be me that has to come in the whole time, along with our unfortunate manager who has no choice because she is in charge?

OP posts:
BakedBeans47 · 13/11/2017 13:15

it is not a sackable offence and certainly not "Gross Misconduct"

Erm yes it might be. I spent many years also working for one of the big HR advisory companies and have advised on fair gross misconduct dismissals. It depends on the employer’s policy and also if they communicate to the employee that if having had the leave declined they go anyway it could be gross misconduct.

I think tho here there is a difference between not having your leave authorised at all and going anyway, and having your leave authorised, then cancelled with unfair preferences given to others.

Holldstock1 · 13/11/2017 13:50

OP this absolutes stinks. You are quite right to feel aggrieved, and it is not for you to cover for these two people simply because they can't be bothered to get child care they have had a whole year to sort out. It is very poor management from your boss that this is happening.

I don't think you mention whether they are single parents or not, but to my mind that is irrelevant, because even if they are they shouldn't have taken a job which means they can't fulfill the rotas they are contracted to do. Plus if its part of the job that management can simply cancel with some notice annual leave to ensure cover, then I'm guessing they took or have kept the job knowing that, and would have some sort of back up for those situations, as they could be in that position at any time during the year, not just Christmas.

I'm a mum with two children and when I went back to work I only took a job that worked around child care either my hubby could do or that I paid for (& occasionally I could ask friends for help). I did not look to do a job which meant that I needed to get my work colleagues to do extra cover for me to their detriment. So if I had been a single parent I would not have taken a job where I might have to work days it wouldn't be possible to get child care. And I find it really strange if they are in that situation that other members of their families such as grand parents could not help them out. Yes as some pp here have said, they might be totally alone and have no-one to ask, but then if so, they are they are in the wrong job.

I now work doing a job which is potentially 365 days a year. And it does mean I can be working weekends, bank holidays and certainly Christmas Eve/Day, Boxing Day and New Year. And, I am Christian - so the actual day for our family is important for something other than just a big blow out family meal and unwrapping tons of presents, because to us it has religious importance. But that still doesn't mean that I will not take my fair share of working Christmas Day. In fact I have done that many times, and gone home and cooked Christmas Dinner and done the whole Christmas thing.

What is quite ridiculous is for the OP to be bullied in this way by her colleagues with children who are refusing to work and by her manager to not deal with this situation. It is the two people who are now claiming that after a year's notice they cant get child care and therefore can't fulfill the job they are contracted to do, that are taking the proverbial.

I had this problem with the first job I had after the children when the people in our office changed (though not with Christmas or New Year as with that particular job we didn't work them). It was a small office 2 deputies - myself and a colleague supposedly equal with me, and a manager who the other colleague became extremely friendly with. We both had primary aged children although I think my two were abit older than hers. I either used my hubby or my child minder to cover holiday time or if the children were sick.

I like to think I'm a reasonably fair person, willing to take turns with others and considerate with supporting work colleagues. I even worked from home laid up on the sofa (unable to drive) during 2 weeks scheduled sick leave following a knee operation as my manager's mum had suddenly died.

The first year we all shared an office I offered to work flexibly most of the summer holidays and December up to Christmas as we weren't taking a holiday that year so my colleague could just pick what she wanted. She booked the October half term as going abroad. She booked the following February half term saying she was going abroad - but then didn't go. Thinking I just wasn't being organised enough I asked about taking the next half term as I wanted some time with my kids when they were off school. I even said to her, if you want to agree which half terms you want off we can alternate it. She had already got something booked that half term so I said I'd take October instead. Summer holidays weren't a problem, again we weren't going away so I just tied in with her and my boss's plans. We were hoping to go away the following February to California for 2 weeks. So I spoke to my boss early about it to avoid any problems and she agreed I could go.

Two weeks before October half term - suddenly my colleague had things booked and needed the time off and went ballistic at me saying she needed time off because she needed time with her children and I didn't need it because I had a husband and child care. She also had a major melt down shouting and screaming, about me having 2 weeks in February (which would have included half term) because she was planning on going to Australia and that was the best time for her to go.

She was also often quite abusive to me in the office when the manager wasn't there (which due to part time rotas and the type of work we were doing was quite often), or used my ideas and took credit for them with management.

By end of January I wasn't working there anymore, although not directly because of her - significant family illness. But I have to say that if it hadn't been for that I think I would well have left anyway as my colleague was very entitled, had the manager wrapped around her little finger and knew exactly how to suck up to those higher up to get her own way - I'm just not office politics savvy enough - I just want to do my job well.

I don't think people should get priority for annual leave just because they have children. I'm sure if I had been single my old colleague would have used it left right and centre to get her own way and said she needed that time because she had children so should get priority.

People like her and the OP's two colleagues simply want their own way all the time. It could be annual leave, leaving early or last minute time off for appointments (I forgot how many times I was asked to cover for her during my days off in my old job because my colleague needed to take DCs to dentist etc etc) - whatever it is, the real crux is that people like that believe they are more important than anyone else and therefore are more deserving. They are only interested in how to use other people to get their own way..

If it wasn't to do with their children, I would bet there would be something else they would claim why they needed to take Christmas off again. There would be something else that would mean they wanted priority. Its quite simple - its called being selfish.

I really hope you get this sorted out OP.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 13/11/2017 14:10

The fact I had paid a deposit for something, would not be grounds for unfair dismissal because I have been offered it back, with some compensation. I think my boss knows this

I'm quite certain he does; it's also what I meant by saying that, having messed up, he's simply going for the most cost effective option

What I'd find especially difficult is that, if pandered to, the entitled will be cock a hoop and almost certainly use this to make further demands in other areas - something which could make more difficulties for the manager than if he'd handled it properly in the first place

As I mentioned, sadly it's not a place I'd want to work any longer

ReanimatedSGB · 13/11/2017 14:36

I would also recommend looking for another job, because they are now going to use every trick in the book to make you work at Christmas, so it's going to be really unpleasant. Though the more pressure they put on you, the greater the likelihood of you having a case for constructive dismissal. It is not acceptable to give one employee preferential treatment over another like this. You worked last Christmas, you booked your leave first and had it confirmed, they are being massively unfair to treat you as though your plans don't matter.

ButchyRestingFace · 13/11/2017 14:41

If you find another job, OP, let’s hope your replacement is a self-entitled parent with a penchant for international travel.

Then they can all squabble for top dips amongst themselves, hopefully descending into utter carnage which they resolve by eating each other. 👍

Hiptrip · 13/11/2017 15:10

I’ve now seen HR - and it’s ended in tears for a couple of people.

After a meeting with the department staff it has been decreed by HR, that the people who’s turn it is should be working Christmas. In the case of one single parent there is a very good reason why she can’t, which I wasn’t aware of, but It’s not right for me to go into details why not on here.

The other lady has been told to get herself sorted - if she doesn’t she will be facing disciplinary.

The supervisor who swore at me has had a warning. She has also been told that if she wants the extra money that goes with that, she takes the hit when there is a staffing shortage. So she won’t be going to Italy with her husband and kids for Christmas, she will be working to cover the person who really can’t be here. Her contract is “hours as required” so there’s nothing she can do - they’ve got her over a barrel.

I will be off for Christmas and will be enjoying my Christmas dinner with friends as planned.

OP posts:
GrapesAreMyJam · 13/11/2017 15:13

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

MrMeeseekscando · 13/11/2017 15:13

Fuck yes!!! Grin

RoomOfRequirement · 13/11/2017 15:14

That's great news! Well done for standing up for yourself Hiptrip

FlowerPot1234 · 13/11/2017 15:17

Glitterball [smily] Glitterball Smile

I am so very happy for you OP. Well done for not backing down and you obviously represented yourself well with HR. Well done and have a super Christmas.

Andrewofgg · 13/11/2017 15:17

OP Could I trouble you to walk on some ground so that I can worship it?

Bloody well done you!

kaytee87 · 13/11/2017 15:19

Glad you’ve got Christmas sorted. I’d start looking for another job though as your colleagues will hate you now.

kaytee87 · 13/11/2017 15:20

Not that I’m saying what you’ve done is wrong but life can be unfair

Hiptrip · 13/11/2017 15:24

Yes unfair in that the other people in the department who are off didn’t get this bucket load of shit, just me. Maybe because I am the youngest member of the team?

OP posts:
FireCracker2 · 13/11/2017 15:28

I will be off for Christmas and will be enjoying my Christmas dinner with friends as planned

Until the supervisor or other mum gets herself signed off with depression and you are called back in!

TwattyvonTwatofTwatsville · 13/11/2017 15:28

Well done!!

And as tough as it is for your supervisor to have to cancel her holiday, she had no bloody right to book it in the first place until she had sorted out cover.

She clearly just thought she could tell you to work and to hell with your plans and the fact that you had written confirmation that you were off this Christmas.

Hope you have a great Christmas OP - and well done for standing your ground.

RandomMess · 13/11/2017 15:29

They saw you as weak enough to try it on, or actually know you are nice person and thought you’d be too nice to say no.

Flowers well done you!

HunterofStars · 13/11/2017 15:32

Well done, Op. Enjoy your Christmas dinner Flowers

ceecee32 · 13/11/2017 15:33

I would let it be known that as your Christmas leave has been agreed that you now have changed your plans and that flights and hotels are booked somewhere that sounds expensive.

Just in case one of the others complains, goes off sick etc and that it will cost the company a lot of money if they cancel your leave.

Not saying you have to go anywhere - but just let them think you are

FireCracker2 · 13/11/2017 15:34

Until the supervisor or other mum gets herself signed off with depression and you are called back in!

...or quits. You really think she will not go on that holiday?

Belleende · 13/11/2017 15:38

Well done you. I hope you get some armour for Christmas, you will probably need it! But others are right, person going to Italy will be getting on that plane, you can bet your bottom chocolate Christmas coin.

Hiptrip · 13/11/2017 15:38

Ah yes but I don’t HAVE to go back in. And I won’t be.

OP posts:
scottishdiem · 13/11/2017 15:39

Why did people book flights etc without having holidays confirmed? Or if they were confirmed, why is the manager overseeing the holiday rota giving everyone holidays apart from the OP?

ShatnersWig · 13/11/2017 15:41

Well done OP. But bet a certain person will try and make your life unpleasant now. And I also think she will try and ensure she goes to Italy.

Angrybird345 · 13/11/2017 15:42

Good for you OP.

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