To think this is discrimination

[Hiptrip]

I work in a 365 days a year industry. My colleagues and I, have to provide cover over Christmas.

As I worked over Christmas and New Year last year, I booked and was promised this year off. I have this in writing.

Two colleagues have announced that they can't get childcare, and now management have come back to me and said I have to work. (Single, no kids was planning to have fun with friends and family. Shouldn't have mentioned it in my break at work.)

I have now received a written directive that my leave is cancelled, with the threat of disciplinary if I don't turn up.

No unions here, but what are my chances of claiming constructive dismissal if I don't go to work?

We are a team of twelve and those with families, who are rostered to work have a month to sort themselves out, as does everyone else. Why should it be me that has to come in the whole time, along with our unfortunate manager who has no choice because she is in charge?

I think you should suck it up.

You chose a job where you could be working on any day of the year.

Surely you should be addressing that to the members of staff who expect OP to swap with them? 🤔

OP, forgive me that I haven't RTFT but this is grossly unfair to you.

Your colleagues are able to find childcare. What they are really saying is they are not prepared to pay the rate available with the carer they prefer. There is no absolute impossibility about it. They have had one year to prepare and it is your colleagues who your employer should be disciplining for their failure to make appropriate arrangements.

An employer can cancel your leave with the appropriate notice (which has to match the amount of leave you are taking), even if they have told you in writing that it is approved. Possible avenues for you to be compensated for this (if that is of interest to you) or ensure you keep your leave are:

Will you suffer financial loss by them doing this? Breaches of implied duty of mutual trust and confidence etc.

Your employer must allow you to have your annual leave and cannot (I believe!) cancel your leave if it means you do not have your statutory entitlement for this year. If they cancel you OP, will you not have your leave entitlement then?

*I think you should suck it up.

You chose a job where you could be working on any day of the year.*

Except she took the entirely sensible precaution of getting written confirmation of her AL on Christmas Day this year. For it to be overturned because someone else couldn't just suck it up in a job they chose where they could be working on any day of the year and didn't have the foresight to apply for the day off on the first day they could if they knew (which they will have done) that childcare could be a CD issue.

It's this sort of shit that gives parents a bad name.

What if you spend Christmas with your ageing mother for whom this may be her last?

Happened to me this year. Lovely Xmas 2016 spent with fit-as-a-fiddle parent. Few months later, boom! Dropped dead.

Am I glad I don’t work in an industry where some staff think they have the right to every Xmas/New Year off just because they have kids.

I completely feel for you - at my workplace, parents are allowed time off to watch children in school plays etc if they can't get childcare and phone in then that is 'fine'. I have children but my sister doesn't so completely understand what you're going through. Very unfair society we live in (in many ways).

*I think you should suck it up.

You chose a job where you could be working on any day of the year*

As did the parents in question, surely? Why aren't they sucking it up? It is their turn to work.

Elozabenson I think you make a great point. If we worked in the same job with no staff turnover for our whole career then this attitude would be valid but there will always be someone new with children.
Plus where does the magic start sand end? I assume everyone would want the first Christmas and then as long as Christmas is magical? My son is 7 and still believes in Santa and my third is due in January so should i expect 14 Christmases at home?

Most people who have to work Christmas work in essential services. I am an atheist but can't think of a better message for our kids than them making some sacrifice to help others who need help on the day where we supposedly celebrate the birth of Christ who sacrificed everything for us.

My dad also dropped dead in January 2015. I didn't spend Christmas with him because we spent it with ds's family that year and I still feel regret to have missed that last Christmas.

I would post this in legal OP. I have 4 kids and get every Christmas with them because my company closes for 10 days over Christmas/New year. My eldest DS is working and his company is closed for Xmas day only. He works on a 4 day on 4 day off Rota and worked Xmas eve through to day after boxing day. This year he's off Xmas eve and boxing day. It's just the way it goes. My mum and my sister worked in a 24/7 industry for many years and often worked Xmas day. Not ideal but you know that when you take the job. Your colleagues knew that to OP and should have organised childcare accordingly x

OP I sympathise with you, you worked last year and therefore you should tell them to stick it and lodge a grievance.

But where exactly are people supposed to find childcare on Christmas Day? DH and I live 100s of miles from family. Our babysitter wouldn't want to look after our kids on Christmas Day.

And as someone who has worked many Christmas Days in a 365-day industry, with a partner who does the same, this is way off

An adult with a family can get up on Christmas Day, watch his/her children open their presents and have fun, go to work and come home to a Christmas Dinner with their family and a fun, family evening.

DH worked Christmas last year. Left the house at 8am, back 8.30pm by which time the kids were asleep.

I would call out your colleagues and offer to have both their children so they can work on Christmas day and then gloat how it would be so much fun seeing their faces and playing with their new toys. I am a stubborn cow at the best of times and so sure as hell their alternative childcare would become available pretty sharpish with a serious offer from yourself!

I don't think you really have a case here unless you put in for leave before they did I know that's how it works in my husbands job , have you tried to shift swap with someone ?

If you have kids and will struggle for childcare why take on a job where you have to work Christmas.
I hate this entitled parenting, it's like nobody else matters and they expect everyone else to work round their kids.
There really should be laws against it, as obviously some parents are just dicks and can't work out turn taking like a normal person.

If you have kids and will struggle for childcare why take on a job where you have to work Christmas.

I think the OP should have Christmas off but the above isn't fair. Sometimes you have to take whatever job you can get, and sometimes circumstances change.

There are quite a few things to consider here:-

1. length of service - you need 2 to have full employment rights.
2. Leave policy - what does it say in terms of booking leave, is it contractual? (Probably won't be)
3. what do your terms and conditions say?
4. Have you definitely got approval of your leave in writing (that pre-dates other people's request) and if so do you categorically know that the reason was just because they have children and can you evidence it?

I would suggest that you don't just not turn up, particularly as they know you're aggrieved. That could constitute gross misconduct which could attract a sanction of dismissal without notice. Also forget feigning illness as that would just trigger an investigation for disingenous absence.

Unfortunately fair and lawful aren't always the same thing, however if you have always worked over Christmas for years and you're sure that you have had your leave cancelled for the reason stated, then you could potentially claim that the 'mutual trust and confidence' between employee & employer has been breached and you could make a constructive unfair dismissal claim. You do have to resign though so this would be a very risky route as it is notoriously difficult to prove. Also, you don't appear to have done it quickly.

The best idea would be to raise a formal grievance. This would then highlight an issue which is potentially unfair depending on the circumstances. You also have the right of appeal if not upheld. Which may bring it to the attention of someone more senior in the organisation.

Unfortunately some grabby parents are fully familiar with their rights, wants, needs etc but are less familiar with their responsibilities to their bosses and colleagues.
I worked for a company where my boss would call me constantly to cover on weekends as I lived in Zone 2 while the other employees lived in Zone 4 or beyond. My DH lived abroad and we only saw each other every second or third weekend, but the company constantly trumpeted 'they have family, it's unfair to get them to travel in on weekends and disturb their family time on weekends'. I was always allocated Christmas / New Years cover, even though most of the team were Muslim or Hindu. The final insult was my CEO losing his rag at me demanding I go into the office to fix a service failure.. I was in the hairdressers getting my hair done. On my wedding day FFS. That's when I realised that's deserved better.

Your colleagues are able to find childcare. What they are really saying is they are not prepared to pay the rate available with the carer they prefer

I don't know where you live, but no child minder round here would have mindees on xmas day.None.
If they have no family nearby, HOW can they get childcare. WHO is going to take someone else's screamy baby/toddler on xmas day?

How about some people here RTFT? After 19 pages we are still getting comments like "I don't think you really have a case here unless you put in for leave before they did" - the OP did, as well as having it in writing long beforehand that she would get this Christmas and NY off as she worked both last year. This is stated in the OP, so not like you had to trawl through all the pages where it's been repeated. This also goes for the "it's part of the job" comments - it's also part of the job for everyone else in that department.

Those saying about Childcare being hard to find, that's only relevant if the parent is a single parent with no support at all available. If you look at the simple mathematics (as I posted before) this is only relevant if FIVE out of the EIGHT staff who didn't work last Christmas are all in that position - extremely unlikely!

Your colleauges shouldnt be behaving the way they are. Your down for al so you should have it

I think you should suck it up.

You chose a job where you could be working on any day of the year.

And the OP has it in writing that she'd have that day off this year. However, the parents should probably just suck it up though.

Op can you confirm which days you are talking about? In the first post you talked about Christmas and New Year. Is it Christmas day only or several days over the Christmas period?

If these parents literally had no one to look after their kids you would know before now. If I was in that situation I would start worrying in about June! It’s up to them to sort their fucking childcare out.

I have little kids and yes, it is lovely to spend Christmas Day with them, but more important to me, is to spend it with my father who is very poorly with Parkinson’s and has a limited number of Christmases left. If you take away the present giving bit, my dad experiences more joy on Christmas Day than they do. It would be unforgivable if someone forced me to give this day up.

As for the kids. You can still make it special - have presents on Christmas Eve, or early Christmas Day. They can spend the day playing with new toys and watching movies. Then Christmas dinner when parents come home and stay up late as a treat. Or if they are young enough just fake it another day.
Make shit up. Have new traditions.

Why should your kid usurp my dad?

Would be great if you could sort yourself out a new job and hand your notice in on 24th Nov (if you’re on 4 weeks’ notice period).

It’s for that scenario that the word schadenfreude was invented.

You’d need to check your Employee Handbook but I expect there’s something about “at the Manager’s discretion” in the Approval clause of the Annual Leave section.

i think gt legal advice its not in your contract that u hav to do it and they already agreed to your leave

my dh has to work some xmases but theres always one that books it off stating he has to be with his kids doesnt matter if someone else want it he trumps thm apprently-thingshave been said to management but nothing is don

But where exactly are people supposed to find childcare on Christmas Day? DH and I live 100s of miles from family. Our babysitter wouldn't want to look after our kids on Christmas Day

And again that is absolutely no-one else's issue. It would be massively unfair to impact on all your colleagues.

Firstly, I haven’t rtft, but I feel for you op. Dh did 22 years in the military in a trad that had to be covered 24/7. Before he met me, he volunteered to work every Christmas so that those with children could spend the day with their children. When it was his turn to have the children, he still ended up working every sodding Christmas as no one else would volunteer and it always fell that Christmas was on his normal shift days. It was crap and I do not blame you for fighting this.

No way should you be made to feel bad that other parents are missing out, you deserve a Christmas too and your plans are no less important becasue you are not a parent.