AIBU to feel annoyed that male colleague is paid £5k more than me?

[Octonautstotherescue]

We do the same job although I’m more qualified. I found out his pay details by accident yesterday. Couldn’t believe it and feel like a mug now. This isn’t right or legal is it?

[AppleKatie]

Bloody hell this thread is depressing

[vdbfamily]

The NHS is a good example of where people can be in exactly the same level job but paid very differently. Band 6's earn between £26-£35.000 and will be doing exactly the same job. When I last took over managing a team we had some bank workers covering evening shifts. The 2 men in this group had negotiated when they had been hired. One was getting his mileage from his day time base paid (approx 30 miles daily) and the other had asked to be paid at B7 as he was a band 7 but the job advertised as bank was B6 with no B7 responsibilities. A previous manager had agreed all this. When I took over I said we were no longer paying his mileage as others were not being paid theirs, and I stopped booking the Band 7 as he was too expensive. However, it did strike me that most men would have no qualms as negotiating better pay and yet most women just accept what they are offered, me included. I had worked at top of Band 6 for donkeys years. When I got my first B7 post managing a team I for a while was earning the same as before as I only went up one incremental point but was doing less weekend work which is where NHS workers get their enhancements from. I should have said to them that I was not prepared to take on so much extra stress and responsibility for no extra money but did not negotiate. However, I took the long view that I was in a new pay band so would get an annual rise for the next few years, which I had not had for previous 15!

[Yeeeha]

Bloody hell this thread is depressing

Why?

It could just as easily been posted by a woman about another woman, or a man about a woman earning more than them for any one of the many reasons listed.

[2014newme]

Perhaps he negotiated a higher entry rate, or he has more experience or he is better at the job, measured objectively eg appraisal rating, achieving targets
Or perhaps they are discriminating.
You won know till you raise it but get your facts together for that meeting

[Crumbs1]

No, ignore the advice that it’s legal. It’s not. Speak to your union.
Collate information about what jobs you do to demonstrate you do the same or very similar role. The requirement in law is for equal pay for jobs of equal worth.
You don’t have to prove you are as good as him. They have to prove it’s not discrimination.
The route is grievance, ACAS, Tribunal if you want to do battle.
Alternatively go to free half hour appointment with a no win no fee solicitor to see whether you can evidence a claim or criminal charges (and yes, breaches of the Equality Act is an offence).

[treaclesoda]

I can’t believe a lot of these posts, it’s your job to negotiate the highest salary you can at interview stage or when offered a job

A lot of employers don't negotiate on pay. I've been working for over 20 years and have never had an employer who would negotiate on salary, it has always been take it or leave it. It's all very well saying 'well you shouldn't accept the job in the first place' but when you need a job you need a job. It doesn't make it any less upsetting if you subsequently discover that a colleague gets paid more for the same job.

[2014newme]

@Crumbs1 it could be legal. If he has 20 years experience and she has 5 years for example.
She needs to raise it and find out but at the moment, it may or may not be legal depending on whether there is a justification for the disparity.

[PuntasticUsername]

"I'm afraid the fact you are in possession of a vagina doesn't make you of equal worth"

Ain't THAT the truth

[Yeeeha]

No, ignore the advice that it’s legal. It’s not. Speak to your union.
Collate information about what jobs you do to demonstrate you do the same or very similar role. The requirement in law is for equal pay for jobs of equal worth.
You don’t have to prove you are as good as him. They have to prove it’s not discrimination.
The route is grievance, ACAS, Tribunal if you want to do battle.
Alternatively go to free half hour appointment with a no win no fee solicitor to see whether you can evidence a claim or criminal charges (and yes, breaches of the Equality Act is an offence).

Wow! I am so glad I have never worked with anyone like you.

I guess in a factory where everyone litteralt does exactly the same job it could be seen as discrimination.

In any job I have ever had your value to the company is determined by you previous roles, your experience, your knowledge, your contacts with other suppliers and customers, your ability to deal with suppliers and customers, your project management skills etc etc.

Some jobs are black and white, and pay should be equal. The vast majority aren’t and in those instances your value to the business and what hey are happy to pay you is determined by a whole host of things.

If you don’t think you are being paid what you are worth or what you could get elsewhere it is up to you to raise it and push for more. It doesn’t matter in the slightest what other people are being paid.

[gamerwidow]

There is nothing wrong with people with more experience being paid more but pay should not be secret. I would like it if all businesses had publish exactly what each staff member is paid to their staff.
If the pay is fair and it’s really only based on experience then it shouldn’t be a problem.

[19lottie82]

We have a male contractor on our team who was earning almost double me

That’s because he’s a contractor!! TOTALLY standard.

You get holiday pay, possibly sick pay, a pension, job security, other benefits, he doesn’t. That’s why he’s a contractor and on a seemingly higher rate than you (and all other staff in a similar but permenant role.

[2014newme]

Contractors earn more but have no benefits or employment rights. It's not a like for like comparison

[OnionShite]

I think it's simply that many people don't like to call 'sexism' with little or no evidence. It devalues the term.

And yet plenty of the people disagreeing with OP were willing to call 'legal' with no evidence. Also devaluing the term!

[Firesuit]

It's unlikely worrying about gender discrimination will do you any good. You should focus on maximising your own pay and conditions using the things you are in control of. Those don't include changing the attitude an employer who is willing to hurt his own profits by irrationally paying men more to do a job that women would do for less.

Employers can, will and should pay someone less than someone else to the extent the lower-paid person lets them get away for it. An employee is a cost to the business, as with any other cost, they should be looking to pay as little as they can get away with. Even if that means they end up paying someone who is twice as good half as much.

Similarly, you are a one-person business, you should be looking to maximise your sales, and that means replacing your employer as soon as a better one is available. (If a better one is not available, then by definition you are not underpaid.)

If you want to maximise your pay you probably need to job-hop (or sincerely threaten to) every few years until you hit your ceiling. ("Sincerely threaten to" means having an actual alternative job offer that you will accept if your current employer won't give you what you want.)

[Joey7t8]

If the pay is fair and it’s really only based on experience then it shouldn’t be a problem

In the private sector, pay is based on how good you are at your job and how much money you make your employer. This often correlates to experience, but it often doesn't. Some people are just more naturally talented at their jobs - sales is a great example.

[hahahaIdontgetit]

I would go and ask for a pay rise, but be careful about mentioning anyone else’s salary, particularly if you saw it by accident.

Instead focus on how good you are at your job.

[gamerwidow]

Also the NHS is not an example of where you get different pay for the same role.
Everyone doing a similar role should be on the same band but you get paid more the longer you are in the role as recognition of your experience.
Different pay for the same role would be if one person was on a band 2 and one on band 3 for doing the same job. The whole point of AFC was to ensure that people were paid the same money for the same job.
If your manager is allowing staff to negotiate a higher band without changing the job description and adding more responsibilities then it is very much against the policies of the NHS. You absolutely would not be able to get away with that at my NHS trust.

[19lottie82]

But if there is justification how would the OP necessarily know? None of my colleagues know when I’ve told my boss I’m leaving unless I get a pay rise, or what I negotiated as an entry salary at my interview.

[RobotGoat]

For those people saying that maybe the OP's colleague was better at negotiation, I'm just going to leave this link:

www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/news/2016/9/new_study_suggests_women_do_ask_for_pay_rises_but_dont_get_them/

For the OP, has he been there longer? Does he get better feedback? The fact that you're better qualified suggests on the face of it that you should be paid more, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. Sadly, the fact that you're colleague is a man may well be one of them, although it shouldn't be.

[bananafish81]

Have worked on a major project about women in the workplace and the pay gap

One of the main reasons is that women don't ask

Women will often wait to be offered a pay rise in return for career progression or reward for good performance

Men will often be much more aggressive in asking for pay increases. They will often negotiate harder for a raise, and be much more confident about going in high, whereas women will often (note I say often, not all women / not all men) be more tentative

Have you been proactive in negotiate for a pay rise?

[RobotGoat]

*your

Bloody autocorrect

[gamerwidow]

joey experience was the word I was looking for I think. I meant if employees are paid based on how good they are at their job as well as their experience. I think if there are clearly justifiable reasons for different pay then that is fair but in order to keep it fair pay should be published.
If you can’t justify the difference robustly it shouldn’t be there!

[RobotGoat]

bananafish That's not what the study I just posted found, although I acknowledge that was based on Australian data.

[bananafish81]

Yes cross post with @RobotGoat!

And as PP have said, job hopping will get you up the pay scale faster in many ways. The best opportunity for pay negotiation is when you're negotiating for a new role - if you come in a lot higher then, you'll always be ahead of your colleagues who weren't as aggressive in asking for more when they were offered their role

I was told that if an employer doesn't gasp when I name my day rate (as a contractor), I'm not charging enough

I'm pretty sure I am under charging (even though I am paid very very handsomely) because they often don't try and negotiate me down. Ergo I'm not going in high enough. But even knowing this rationally, I still often feel the 'but will they think I'm cheeky...' bullshit that my male counterparts will almost never feel when they negotiate their pay

[1DAD2KIDS]

Studies tend to show different data. Sometimes we need to look at who is doing the study and what their motivation for the research is. Sometimes throwing reaseach at eachother without questioning the validity, bias or relevance to the situation in question can lead to misleading/skewed information. Often we find what we want to find or tailor things to fit a narative