To tell my colleague to shove his opinion on birth up his a*se

[MiniMummy576]

I'm a bit peeved so excuse me if this is a little irrational.

Yesterday I asked my manager if he would be okay with me attending a antenatal relaxation/birth preparation class every Wednesday. Our company policy is that pregnant women are allowed to take paid time off for these things and antenatal appointments etc, but as he's new he just wanted to double check the policy before agreeing. No problem.

Today he comes over to my desk to tell me that he's checked the policy and it's fine for me to go. Then he starts 'joking' about how pregnancy is a skive as women get 'ALL this time off' for antenatal appointments and classes etc.
"You're only giving birth," he tells me.
I smiled politely and told him to have a go himself and get back to me. As he's chuckling and walking away, my male colleague then starts up on a rant about how women shouldn't have anything to say about giving birth because HE'S had kidney stones, he has them ALL THE TIME and they're FAR WORSE than giving birth. He knows this because his ex-wife had two children and yet she'd happily go back and do it again, but he'd NEVER want to have kidney stones again.
My manager looked a little awkward at this and off he went.
Then about 30 seconds later my colleague turns to me and says, "Well I think that was a little out of order."
"What?" I ask.
"'John' calling pregnancy a 'skive'. I think that's really out of order and a bit of an ignorant opinion."
I held my tongue but I really wanted to point out that he was a bit of an ignorant twat too.

YANBU. Each person can only make comparisons for themselves, you can’t do it for someone else.

So if you say “For me, X condition hurt more than giving birth”, OK. But you can only speak for yourself.

It’s not OK to generalise and tell someone to stop complaining when for them, giving birth may be equally or more painful than X condition.

@Intercom
Totally agree. I found gallstones more pain than my three c sections. But I wouldn't dream of comparing my pain to another persons. The first section I had took a good six weeks to get over. The second I was pushing a trolley around Sainsbury's a week later ( I know I shouldn't have been but exh was hopeless). But I wouldn't expect that level of recovery in someone else.

No uterus, no opinion!

Weekly antenatal relaxation classes tho
It's hardly medically indicated antenatal care is it?

Both your boss and your colleague were being bellends in my opinion. You didn’t ask for a pain top trumps, you didn’t ask for anything other than your legal right to attend a class.

He really is a twat and you can tell him from me that my kidney stone pain was a walk in the park compared to my three labours.
And the morphine was bliss much stronger than any drug they give you in labour.
Sorry, but I'm sure you'll be fine.

TBF, kidney stones are a solid 9.5 on the 0 to 10 scale, where 10 is passing out.

It is your right when pregnant to attend ALL antenatal/health appointments as required and they should not be challenged or refused.

Your manager WAS out of order with his comments. Your colleague was too, but he's just ignorant. Your manager should know what he's doing when managing people

I had food poisoning once - it was horrendous and I had to go to hospital and have 3 injections in my bum That pain was worse than child birth but more short lived thankfully! Having said that, there was no need for the frankly unprofessional comments from your manager and your colleague was starting the 'my pain is worse than your pain' top trumps so they are both arses. The child birth classes cover ways of helping you deliver safely (along as everything goes as it should!) so you're trying to protect the health of your baby, not going on a jolly.

It's daft to make comparisons.

I was induced, labour was an 11 for me. G&A did fuck all, the pethidine just meant I was confused as well as in shitloads of pain, the epidural worked and was fantastic, don't remember much but before it I was just screaming, after it I wasn't. 10 was a dislocated knee and 9 ovarian torsion (resolved itself thankfully as otherwise it would have got more painful).

Some people have relatively pain free labours, I know people who had good experiences - in that they didn't find it particularly unpleasant or painful.

It also all ignores the fact that there are different types of pain, when I was in labour when it got bad and with the dislocated knee it was constant, there was no break. With the ovarian torsion it came in waves.

Yanbu. I'd be reporting them both to hr too

So what if kidney stones are worse? Or as bad in a different way? Makes no difference. You are entitled to the time off you need. I'm sure people with kidney stones get the time off that is necessary for them.

I lost the tip of my thumb in a car door. It was far worse than child birth.

I think he has a fair point.

manager a dick
colleague not
imo.

Unless he's given birth he has no fucking idea. Did his kidney stones give him a swollen arse for 6 months?

Utter fool. I'd rather give birth again than have another gallstone attack - because a gallstone attack is just pointless pain whereas childbirth, agonizing as it is - results in a child! You'd think we do it just to brag that we went through some pain...

Weekly antenatal relaxation classes tho hmm
It's hardly medically indicated antenatal care is it?

So what?? Her company is allow g her the time off for it so your post is pointless... this was about their comments on childbirth - not about her having the time off...

Ha! Pain top trumps - load of bollocks. What do you actually win for going through the most pain? PTSD? Top table at the ritz?

Made me laugh though - I was induced and the midwife kept asking me to rate my pain out of ten. It's a concept that just doesn't work in my head so all she got was "8" "ow no now it's an 8" "this is definitely 8" "would you like to hurry up with that theatre and anaesthetist or knock me the fuck out please"

Ignore him, I guarantee you won't give a fuck about work once you have that baby in your arms

@MonkeyJumping My point was more that he was pretty ignorant for just jumping in telling me that I - and all other pregnant women - had no right to say anything about birth because kidney stones are way worse when I hadn't actually said anything about birth at all.

I found it very similar to what LostMyMojoSomewhere said about the whole 'birth pain trumps EVERYTHING' attitude. It's not a competition and it really annoyed me to have him trying to 'one-up' me - almost gloating about his pain - when I wasn't even 'playing the game' (as it were)

She said when they flare up the pain is as bad as labour but she couldn't get proper pain relief for it I know loads of women who have been refused pain relief both during childbirth and after sections.

However, you can't really compare the two because every labour is different, some aren't too painful, others are excruciating and I would imagine the same with anything. Pain tolerances vary from person to person.

@notacooldad in all honesty the episode of constipation I had about 6 months after DS was born was the worst thing I've ever experienced, so I'd agree with that. Telling my manager politely to give birth and get back to me was all I could think of at the time instead of the career limiting response I wanted to say which was to tell him he was a knob and to get bent.

@AdalindSchade I'm not sure what your point is?

@Cornettoninja lol, perhaps I should get him a trophy?

Mind you, given everything that he says he's suffered - regular kidney stones, a broken back, being run over by a car, a stomach condition that requires it to be removed and the oesophagus to be reattached at a different point, ongoing sepsis originating from a tooth abscess, chronic asthma, some sort of joint problem in an undisclosed joint that requires regular injections and a cocktail of pain killers - perhaps a cabinet full.

* ongoing sepsis originating from a tooth abscess*

Sorry but that made me LOL!

Sounds like they both are uneducated and perhaps should engage their brains before their mouths.

My point is that there is a world of difference between midwife appointments and scans (medically necessary/useful) and relaxation classes (not at all necessary and should be arranged in personal time)
I think asking for weekly paid time off for relaxation classes is a piss take. I'm sure your manager only agreed it to avoid some kind of legal challenge but I'm sure there was much eye rolling and sighing in senior management when he went to ask.

@AdalindSchade I'm sorry I've got to have a little chuckle at your 'indignation' about this.
I actually said that it's a relaxation/birth preparation class, which if you were to 'Google' (or some such) there is clinically indicated benefit to. He didn't need to ask anyone because it's in the company's maternity policy, he just had to read it for himself - so there was no 'asking of senior managers'. The company has weighed the options and considered the benefits to their pregnant workers and put it in their policy. A policy which has been approved by committees, by execs and by our governing body... They don't have a problem with it, my manager doesn't have a problem with it.... it's hardly a piss take as I'm not asking for anything that hundreds of other pregnant women in the company haven't asked already for and been entitled to....

I hate the idea (repeated by smug twats in this thread) that childbirth is some fixed level of pain that you can arrange on a scale.

Why people can't count themselves lucky that their childbirth wasn't that painful rather than insisting that it must be the same for other women and pontificating that 'childbirth doesn't feel painful' I have no idea.