Leave during term time - wibu

[oblada]

I'm sure the subject has been done ad nauseatum but hey :) just curious! I asked the school to authorised 2 days off for my daughter. She's in YR1. The days are Friday and Monday in a few weeks time. The reason for it is that my grandmother is 90 years old this year and my whole family is throwing her a surprise birthday party that week-end. My family is abroad (where I am from) so that's where the party is. Hence the 4 days required as 1 travelling there then 2 days 'party'/event and 1 travelling back. Most of my family will be there incl people I haven't seen in 10+ years, family settled in Australia, family we barely ever see etc. I've organised a bloody massive photobook requesting pics from everyone as a little gift for my grandma (took me bloody ages!). Anyway it's going to be great, she has no idea, she bloody deserves it :) we obviously wouldn't miss it for the world and that includes my children. Only one is school aged. She's never sick (only chickenpox last year) and no issue academically. Anyway permission has been refused. Obviously we will still go. And face the consequences (a fine right? 60pounds? Or more?).

But I was wondering WIBU to request it? Would others simply not attend such events? I mean it's not going to change my views but curious to know how others feel about it. This is such a subjective topic. We're not British so maybe cultural in part. Not to say we would go to every birthday under the sun! We've not been to my mother's 60th or my MIL 60th. But both of them are young enough to travel and see us regularly whereas my grandma can't anymore.

We won't even go back for Xmas as can't afford it. My parents will come over but of course not my grandmother.

Anyway just wondering really :) what have ppl taken their kids off school for? What have ppl requested permission for and when has it been granted? Would you take child's attendance/academic level/school year into consideration or expect it to be taken into account?

Xx

Why the venomous attack on teachers and heads Annabella? Rather unnecessary when they are simply following regulations to which they are held account. I actually find your comments insulting and offensive. Teachers teach, they don’t just provide work. Anyone can do that. Best for all of us that you home educate

Didn't they used to be organised and have lesson plans sorted weeks ahead or are they all shoddy at time management?

😂😂

Surely you just have to ring in and say she is not well and to hell with them and the fine . Have a great time OP your dd will benefit far more educationally and socially by going abroad for this occasion.

I'm a rule abider too op. However, i take 'you won't get fined unless you have ten unauthorised days' rule from our lea, to mean 'you can have 9 unauthorised days.'
I would also always tell the school, never lie or get my children to, and do it at sensible times (i.e. End of terms not beginnings).
All teachers I've ever encountered have always maintained the mantra 'we can't authorise it' whilst simultaneously signally somehow to 'go and have fun.'
Teachers are just normal at the end of the day, with common sense.

Didn't they used to be organised and have lesson plans sorted weeks ahead or are they all shoddy at time management?

Bet I'm not the only teacher on this thread that is jumping with absolute joy that you home school!

OP

Your head cannot authorise any term time holidays - they are simply not permitted to do so. However, this does not mean that they disapprove of what you are doing. They probably undertsnad perfectly well, but their hands are tied by the local authority.

You will not be fined for 4 sessions absence.

Those posters advising people to lie and phone in sick, your children will be asked where they have been and they will have to lie. Just be honest. If it is important enough for you to take your children out of school, then just say that is what you are doing. I took my daughters out of school for my graduation. I did not expect or ask for authorisation, I just told the school that it would be happening. If they marked it as unauthorised, so what?

On the 'ring in and say she's unwell':

Honestly, don't do this. As I said above, the school doesn't disapprove of what you are doing, they just can't authorise the absence. So you have told them you are going, and it is all honest and above board, and everyone will be happy about it (as long as you don't do it lots of times over a school year).

However, if you ring and say they are 'ill', you destroy the trust between you and the school. There are parents who ring in 'sick' and we mark as unauthorised absence anyway. There are those who ring in 'sick' and we ring their landline to see whether they are at home as they have said, as soon as the first phone call ends. There are children who have been 'sick' who come in burbling about their holiday, and we go back to change the registers accordingly (and then add to our list of 'don't believe the sick call' families). And we judge those parents. We really DON'T judge those who do a once-in-a-school-career jaunt that has 2 days of unathorised absence that they have told us about.

Do the parents who ring children in “sick” really think teachers don’t know what is going on? Children talk and it doesn’t take a genius to realise what’s going on!

Phoning in and lying is just stupid. The HT has wished the OP a fab time - she obviously has no intention whatsoever of reporting the absence to the local authority for fining. Clearly she also has no intention of being rapped over the knuckles by Ofsted for allowing too many absences, or of having parents x, y and z complain that it's unfair they can't take their children to great aunt Mavis's birthday when they heard parent w was allowed to do something similar (even though they are lying through their teeth about the real reason for the absence, their children are behind at school and they take the piss with holidays during school time every year, too).

Keep her off the the Thursday as well and claim illness. When she's 25 is it really going to matter that she missed a little bit of school to attend a special birthday?

In the school I teach in, that would be authorised, as it should be. It's a huge event and you aren't taking the Piss with time off. Go and enjoy yourselves.

And it really isn't worth getting a reputation as a lying, untrustworthy parent. It will come back to bite you, unlike 2 days unauthorised absence in year 1.

And it really isn't worth getting a reputation as a lying, untrustworthy parent. It will come back to bite you, unlike 2 days unauthorised absence in year 1.

Exactly this. Those of you who say 'I ring in sick dishonestly and nothing has happened ... yet', don't be too complacent...

I did that, Annabelle. I gave a pushy parent my planning for the two weeks that her Y5 child was in a skiing holiday, edited so the differentiation didn’t reveal children’s needs. They didn’t understand it, or the activities. Usually I just ask for a scrapbook journal of the time away, with writing and other bits.

Thanks! No I wouldn't lie, no need to as I'm perfectly happy that we are reasonable in going :) and I'd rather be upfront and deal with the consequences anyway, that's what I try to tell my kids to do after all!
Having said that my landline is an Internet number linked with my mobile so it would ring on my mobile too if someone tried that haha :)

We took dc out of school for a couple of days in Y3 and Y6 to take them to a family wedding several hours drive from where we lived. The dc are in primary school - their cousins on dh's side have mostly finished uni and some are about 40, one cousin has a child older than they are, so the generational difference means they don't really know them very well at all. Although the wedding was on the Saturday, other events had been organised for the Friday and Sunday. Several family members were coming that the dc had never met as they live in different countries, as well as FIL who has met them about 3 times ever, and who is now quite poorly as well as going downhill with dementia, so it was important to us that the dc saw him.

School is adamant that you cannot take the dc out of school for a holiday and anything that you ask for that even hints at being a holiday, let alone mentions the word, is refused automatically.

They do have a 'however, there are a few exceptions...' category and you have to make your case, ensuring that you make it sound as un-holiday-ish as possible. As it was after SATS and dc1's year were off abroad for the week, which dc1 didn't want to do so wasn't going (along with about half his year) and as all the extra staff get sent out on the trip, those that don't go are effectively second class citizens as there aren't any extra staff left behind so they can go on trips or outings so they have a very feeble week... it meant that they had very little ground to stand on when I knew that half the year would be on a coach or ferry and the other half were having a day long rounders tournament, so he wasn't' missing anything important.

But the lesson I learnt was to know that if you are requesting time off, don't mention the word holiday, and keep repeating how it is a unique opportunity that will not present itself again, that it's deeply important to the dcs' sense of family and self and understanding where they had come from, that it is an exceptional circumstance that we are very lucky is happening and that they are able to learn greatly from, that these circumstances are not likely to happen again, that it really is something truly exceptional just in case they hadn't got the message already! for other reasons, and that by denying them the ability to go, they would be depriving them of an exceptional opportunity that they are not likely to have again. Just keep getting those 'exceptional circumstances' and the words 'exceptional circumstance' written as many times as possible that they can't possibly contradict it...

Which of course - a big family gathering for a 90th birthday is - especially if family are flying in from all over - something that it is much more important that they are present at. If they had their O-Levels that week then yes, you'd need to think carefully about it. But even SATs I would argue are more for the benefit of the school and this would be much more beneficial for the dc. So the fact they are so young - definitely worth missing school for!

Sorry, I'm tired and that was a very long winded way of saying it's much more important for you all to go to something like this than school. Definitely counts as an exceptional circumstance.

I'm a teacher. Of course we know what's going on. However, I'm not paying a fine. My child is sick on his birthday and that's that.

YANBU but my kids’ school would never have authorised this. They will absolutely never authorise anything! People have had all sorts of circumstances and asked for authorisation and it’s quite literally NEVER been approved. I understand up to a point, because if they authorise one Family then it could spiral, but the possible circumstances with which you COULD be authorised seem to be completely unattainable. I don’t ask because I now know what the answer will be so I say that they’re sick. It doesn’t sit well with me, the lying, but my kids are doing so well and generally have perfect attendance, so for this type of thing I wouldn’t hesitate to take my kids out for two days. It’s a one off event, and the benefits of Family, culture, and community outweigh (for me) the benefits of being one in thirty kids over the course of two days. You could do half an hours one to one work with your child on the journey and it will probably give DC a boost, rather than be somehow detrimental to their education. One of my children is out for a day here and there for medical appointments, and it has had no effect whatsoever on his learning, he’s exceeding in all areas, and I believe that it’s because we get so many little pockets of quiet time together to read/look at books, solve maths problems etc. That quality time is exactly that, it’s of high quality.

Annabella's post is one of the most unpleasant pieces of vitriol I have read on MN in five years here.

OP, I don't blame you for being confused. The HT would no doubt love to authorise the absence. Sadly, she can't. The new guidance for absences was introduced in 2012 and swept away the previous system whereby HT were trusted as professionals to make a judgement on each individual case, best placed as they were to know their families and their circumstances.

The change now tells HT that they may only authorise leave in 'exceptional circumstances', and every authorised absence can be scrutinised by the local authority, governing body, or Ofsted. When the guidance was issued, the government gave one example of 'exceptional circumstances': in the summer of 2012, all police officers' leave was cancelled in order to police the Olympics. In that circumstance, requests from police officers' families for term time leave in order that they could have a family holiday that year would be considered 'exceptional circumstances' and would be approved. This is the only example that the government provided and you can see that it sets the bar pretty high.

The HT knows that you are going to go. She cannot officially authorise the absence but she has tacitly signalled her unofficial approval by wishing you well. I think it highly, highly unlikely that you would be fined.