The Super Rich

[malificent7]

I watched two tv programmes on them last week. Many living in one of their many opulent palaces all saying they didnt think they should be taxed more.
Then all the news about off shore tax evasion. If i dont pay my taxes i get a court order from the council while i sit in my tiny rental.
Aibu to feel a tinsy bit annoyed? Nothing will change though will it?
Perhaps i nedx to work harder.

This is interesting. A lot of rich people are threatening to leave if Corbyn wins the next election (I think he will) but how many will actually leave remains to be seen.
If there is a mass exodus then Corbyn will have to put some sort of currency controls in place but a lot of money may have left the country by then

I think we have to look back to the 60s/70s to see if history repeats itself.

I lived through the subsequent fall out once and wouldn't want to be repeating the situation again

This is interesting. A lot of rich people are threatening to leave if Corbyn wins the next election (I think he will) but how many will actually leave remains to be seen.
If there is a mass exodus then Corbyn will have to put some sort of currency controls in place but a lot of money may have left the country by then

So we should let the rich keep avoiding tax because we cannot afford not to? The NHS and education system is struggling so much, I do not see what we have to loose by at least trying to close the tax loopholes.

look back to the 60s/70s

I do not see what we have to loose by at least trying to close the tax loopholes.

There's a difference between closing tax loopholes, raising tax rates, and countering illegal tax evasion. That's 3 completely different topics which have become confused in this thread.

Not surprising really because the UK tax system is stupidly complex and grossly unfair. It's become a political football, changed at whim by a succession of hopeless Chancellors, and every change they make is never thought through properly and just causes more loopholes, unfairness, confusion and damaging unforeseen consequences.

Libdems pushed through the removal of the tax free personal allowance for people earning over £100k. Their supporters loved it and it was good for media headlines. But we're reaping the damage now as ever increasing numbers of doctors and dentists are reducing their working hours to get their pay below £100k to avoid the marginal tax rate caused by it of a whopping 62%! So instead of the "soak the rich" headlines, it should have been "longer to get a doctor or dentist appointment". That's a graphic illustration of the damage that can be caused by "popular" tax rises.

Badbadbunny, I am not confused. The example you gave was about raising taxes, whereas I was discussing tax avoidance loopholes, as highlighted in the Panorama programme. They are unfair and should be stopped, regardless of what other tax levels Britain brings in for people who are paying tax.

That graph is exactly the point.

Anyone with money who could leave left.

American celebrities were never going to leave if Trump got in. However if he raised income tax to 90% then you wouldn't see them for dust.

I do not feel very proud that this country is doing well because we have a reputation for allowing the rich to do dodgy taxes and it goes all the way to the head of state.

I also think it is a fallacy that this country needs the tax avoiders. Close the loopholes and let them go.

if you were watching the documentary on Paradise Papers then that’s not tax evasion. Offshore accounts in tax havens are not illegal. Either you dont actually understand the documentary, or you were watching something else.

I think we do understand the difference between evasion and avoidance, but if it's all so legitimate, why the secrecy? We don't have to keep the fact that we have an ISA or make provision for our old age via a pension secret, even though by conflating the two some people are trying to suggest they are the same.

That graph is exactly the point.

Anyone with money who could leave left.

I don't think that graph is indicating emigration levels.

There's a difference between hating success and hating the kind of greed that doesn't pay back in.

JK Rowling, I believe, is successful AND manages to pay all her UK taxes.

I also think it is a fallacy that this country needs the tax avoiders. Close the loopholes and let them go.

Totally agree

If you hate people more successful than yourself how can you ever be hope to be successful?

I do not hate those who are more successful. I would feel the same way about the unfairness even from a comedy show I did find funny.

Here’s the thing tho. Everyone on this thread is one of the super rich global elite. Compared to average world Income we are all rolling in it.

But I bet you all happily make use of your LEGAL way of avoiding tax that is called a personal allowance.

Do you think using that personal allowance (which is a legal way to save tax just like putting some money off shore is) is immoral? Maybe you should all volunteer to pay that extra tax and gift it to poorer people.

See the double standards here?

No-one gets anything in life for free, be proactive and if you're smart one day you'll be like them too.

What utter shit. Plenty of folk on this list have had a lot handed to them for free.

Here’s the thing tho. Everyone on this thread is one of the super rich global elite. Compared to average world Income we are all rolling in it.

Absolutely.

One World!

There's actually quite a bit of research to suggest that, while higher taxes get rid of mobile global capital (huge empty mansions owed by oligarchs), that capital rarely pays much in the way of tax anyway - while more settled wealth tends not just to leave. Many people like living in London because London is awesome, basically.

"you all happily make use of your LEGAL way of avoiding tax that is called a personal allowance. "

This point has already been answered many times, RTFT.

@whiskyowl I can’t see anything answering my question. Do all the people on this thread hooting on at the awfulness of people using legal means to reduce their tax bill use their personal allowance.

I’d like to know but I’m sure I can guess.

Are you seriously comparing those who are not earning enough to pay tax with those off shoring millions?

Well that's odd, isn't it, since I distinctly remember posting an answer myself about the difference between income that covers subsistence/necessaries and income above that level.

The dip in the graph was when taxing of those that were considered rich was at its peak and should have shown a rise instead of a fall.

The top 1% became those that were higher earners in the middle class bracket. Not those that were earning the huge money.

I personally know several people who were family friends who at that time just handed their keys to their homes businesses and furniture auctioneers and packed their bags and got on the plane and left.

These were not super rich people but business owners who had started from the bottom and left school at 10 and did all sorts to save enough to buy their first market stall then shop then more shops or factories and could see if they stayed their lives work crumbling around them as with the taxes and wages they had to pay out the cost of their product would become too high to compete with emerging markets.

What did you think it meant