The Super Rich

[malificent7]

I watched two tv programmes on them last week. Many living in one of their many opulent palaces all saying they didnt think they should be taxed more.
Then all the news about off shore tax evasion. If i dont pay my taxes i get a court order from the council while i sit in my tiny rental.
Aibu to feel a tinsy bit annoyed? Nothing will change though will it?
Perhaps i nedx to work harder.

Offshore accounts are perfectly legal and as a previous poster said, anyone with a pension or other investments is likely to have some money in one one way or another.

I presume that posters complaining about legal tax planning don't use their income tax basic tax free amount? Or don't have tax free pension contributions? Or don't use their partner's tax status to minimise their own payments?

I'm not a tax accountant but I think castigating some for using legal tax minimisation strategies whilst also using their own is hypocritical at best.

Gotta you are right, but offshore accounts are not "tax avoidance"

Apart from the international billionaire set

They hold over half the world's wealth. Please stop setting them aside.

Every poster on MN is rich compared to the world's poorest.

Are you paying extra tax to mitigate this? Of course you aren't.

Every poster on MN is rich compared to the world's poorest.

Are you paying extra tax to mitigate this?

One World.

I presume that posters complaining about legal tax planning don't use their income tax basic tax free amount?

So how about writing a law that says we can keep 50% of our basic income as a personal allowance? Those of us on PAYE don't have ways of channelling sums of money around. Some of this avoidance, whilst legal, does look morally dubious.

I feel equally angry about CEOs who reward themselves with seven figure salaries while paying their staff the minimum they can get away with. No CEO, however good they are, can really pretend that they are adding that much value.

Call it the politics of envy if you like - I say it's not. I am tolerably well off, and own my own house outright, but I feel extremely angry that a wealthy society has people dependent on food banks, homeless, or in insecure accommodation.

"Those of us on PAYE" also get tax breaks, which we take advantage of.

Every person in the country likes to point "up" the scale to those who should be paying more than them, or not utilising their legal tax breaks "for the good of society".

Charity never starts at home, does it?

Friends I have who earn a LOT or have businesses pay an enormous amount of tax.

But why should they be taxed even more? Most wealthy people barely even use the services that taxes pay for. Why should they be expected to pay for everyone else just because they are rich?

Friends I have who earn a LOT or have businesses pay an enormous amount of tax.

The topic is the top percentiles. Are you speaking of this?

Also, this sense of entitlement that sone of you seem to have to other people's money is a bit shocking. But sadly very British. If you want more in life you should get off your arse and get it instead of whining about those who have.

Because tbb to live and benefit from a stable society which every single wealthy person does, you need to contribute towards it. Nobody has ever become wealthy with their own effort only. They always need poorer people working for them and simply can't go on where so few people have more than half the worlds wealth.

Ttbb, because we have a welfare state. If they want to live permanently in a tax haven and ignore the poverty then that is their choice. If they want to have homes here, drive on our safe roads, have access to our police force and justice systems if they are the victims of a crime and access to the many cultural and social events that happen in this country, then they need to contribute towards the running of this country on an equal footing with those who live here.

Also, this sense of entitlement that sone of you seem to have to other people's money is a bit shocking. But sadly very British. If you want more in life you should get off your arse and get it instead of whining about those who have.
what a complete and utter idiot

We have, as humans, a condition which makes us believe that everyone views things as we do. You feel tax avoidance is good. Many, however, understand the link between social expenditure and a well-functioning society.

That's what everyone says until they start having options as to saving tax. It's easy to take the moral high ground when there's nothing you can do about it.

I've had two clients which brilliantly expose this. One was a teacher who was also a union rep, so heavily leftie with social conscience etc. When he started his small hobby business, he told me he was happy to pay the "right" tax etc - then as his business grew, he turned into a "capitalist" when he started having to write out higher rate tax cheques and wanted to know all about tax avoidance and eventually converted into a limited company to save tax and NIC! The other is a GP who is likewise a union rep (and often seen in the media) who, along with his GP partners set up an in house pharmacy, but they set it up in a tax minimised way so not only do they get their pay as a GP from the NHS, they get a second bite of the cherry by profits on prescriptions paid by the NHS, but pay virtually no tax on those profits and the profits don't go anywhere near their GP practice so don't benefit patients indirectly either.

2.2 billion pounds a year! Why?...just why, would a very wealthy person want to avoid tax?

How much does anyone need above an already lavish lifestyle, especially when they know the country is suffering austerity?
People who claim to be patriotic and bang on about how great the country is but really, they don't care about anything but their own wants.

It should be illegal. The fact it isn't is because the greedy bastards made the rules.

I have never understood the mentality of anyone who can comfortably afford several homes, exotic holidays and the best of everything trying to avoid taxes. They are a far bigger problem than so called benefit cheats.They should be sneered at and looked down on as the selfish greedy bastards that they are.

Do you feel the same way about sports stars, pop stars, actors, TV presenters, and a whole range of other "slebs" who do exactly the same? Or do you turn a blind eye because they entertain you and you're a fan???

Badbunny I have to agree with you. It's sad but true, people who swear they want to do the right thing aren't as bothered when they realise how much they can avoid paying by doing the wrong thing. The laws need to be changed.

and often seen in the media

Please re-read your own post. It is seeded with many indicators that you speak from a position of deeply entrenched bias.

Again, it is ok, a very human tendency. But once you recognise this you can begin to detach from those biases, or at least understand them.

Do you feel the same way about sports stars, pop stars, actors, TV presenters, and a whole range of other "slebs" who do exactly the same

Do not be confused. A footballer may be rich. The owner of the club is wealthy.

Also, this sense of entitlement that sone of you seem to have to other people's money is a bit shocking. But sadly very British. If you want more in life you should get off your arse and get it instead of whining about those who have

You are an idiot.
It's not 'other people's money' that we want. We want people to pay their taxes without looking for ways to get out of it because that's what they should do! We live in a society where people pay according to their means and abilities.
Some of the very wealthy pay hardly any tax at all. The rest of us are getting off our arses and contributing what we have to whilst those who have more they can ever need are trying to avoid contributing for the services they rely on in this country.

Do you feel the same way about sports stars, pop stars, actors, TV presenters, and a whole range of other "slebs" who do exactly the same? Or do you turn a blind eye because they entertain you and you're a fan???

What a daft question!
I feel the same about ANYONE who avoids taxes. Who the hell do you think I was talking about?

A person who is resident and domiciled in the uk will not be avoiding tax by putting their money offshore, no matter how they structure it. We have had anti avoidance rules stopping this happening for a long time. Some of them have a history of about 100 years. Interestingly the darling of MN the EU have tried to challage these rules under the principle of freedom of establishment several times. People often use off shore structures for confidentiality reasons (often to avoid the kind of hysterical finger pointing that’s now happening). In fact it’s perfectly possible, given some penalising measures to end up with a higher tax bill and dry tax charges (ie a tax charge but no cash) by using one of these tax havens. I notice at no point does the BBC provide a detailed analysis comparing the tax bill of uk res/dom investor who has and hasn’t used an offshore investment structure. I would suggest anyone who has invested in an ISA, used childcare vouchers, salary sacrificed at work to get benefits(cycle to work, additional holidays, low emission cars etc) consider the effect of their tax avoidance too.

"Those of us on PAYE" also get tax breaks, which we take advantage of.

Do we? I don't recall having to do any 'tax planning' with my net PAYE income. I do have an ISA, but with the pisspoor rates of interest, it's hardly worth the bother, and it's limited to a few thousand which will pay me less than £100 in interest. Ah yes, I must go and find an offshore fund to stash this in.

I would suggest anyone who has invested in an ISA, used childcare vouchers, salary sacrificed at work to get benefits(cycle to work, additional holidays, low emission cars etc) consider the effect of their tax avoidance too
ridiculous
The effect an individual using these benefits is miniscule compared to the billions lost legally due to laws written to allow wealthy people to minimise tax. Again, the law needs to change