To think obesity is an eating disorder? *POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING*

[pinkliquorice]

I don't want this to be triggering or offensive in anyway. If you are stuggleing with your weight or an eating disorder and are likely to be triggered by these discussions please dont read on.

Do you consider obesity to be an eating disorder in the same way as anorexia for example? AIBU to suggest this? Me and my partner have been discussing it all evening

Extra info:
(Being out of the healthy BMI range on either sides is obviously really dangerous and can have numerous negative effects on health and can even result in death.
But why as a society do we view being dangerously overweight any different to being dangerously underweight?
I have struggled with anorexia and bulimia on and off since I was 13 and when I have been severly underweight I have been given support and sympathy not judgement and that is the only reason why I am now better.
When my weight has fallen below a certain mark I have been hospitalised and given treatment to help me return to a healthy BMI, but for someone over the healthy BMI range they are not given the same treatment.
Body positivity is extremely important to me, and everyone no matter their weight deserves to be happy and respected but is there not an opposite to the Pro-Ana movement?
If someone commented on me being underweight and told me I needed to eat, I would go into panic and restict even more as controlling and reducing my weight and food consumption was my comfort, I was addicted to not eating and that took my pain away.
Surely obesity is the exact opposite of this, is it not the case that often when someone is overweight, they eat for comfort and if someone tells them they are overweight and they need to eat less that they eat more to take the pain away.)

Again, I know this is a really sensitive subject and I dont want to upset or cause offence to anyone.

There are certain subjects that are so heavily politicised and emotionally charged that finding a real effective solutions is virtually impossible. Obesity is one of these topics. Serious over or under eating is neither normal or healthy but they will never be seen in the same way as each other because the discourses created through ‘knowledge’ about the subject matter is heavily tied up with social attitudes.

The diversity of reasons for obesity make it a more complex issue than anorexia.
There are people who for a variety of reasons don't prioritise good nutrition (money, time, awareness)
There are people with health conditions/ medications which make it difficult to maintain weight on a "normal" diet
There are people who self medicate with eating and have a disordered mental approach to eating.
There are people who just consume a little more than they need and gradually reach obesity through adulthood.

Being obviously underweight was always negative in that it was most likely to be caused by poor access to food. When food was more scarce and unreliable, being excessively fat was seen negatively as gluttony and people having more than their fair share. It's only comparatively recently that food supplies have become regular. I think that on a societal level entering an age of abundant food before the cultural legacy of rationing had passed has been very damaging.

An anorexic won't recover without appropriate psychological support, and many obese people won't either. Where diets (and exercise) routinely fail, you're not going to get anywhere unless you address why, otherwise the cycle repeats over and over fruitlessly.

My mum was a child during ww2, a time when food was a precious commodity and not to be wasted. As a young mother, she brought those messages to us as children. We were not permitted to leave the table until every scrap of food on our plates, was eaten. More than once my sibling was served the remains of dinner for breakfast, cold. We learnt that it was better to eat the food hot, than cold the next day. Coupled with the fact that over the years, portion sizes grew, both my sibling and I have struggled with our weight. I know I'm obese, I don't need to be laughed at it shamed. I already feel ashamed. I avoid social situations for two main reasons : I find it hard to find suitable clothes, due to my size and, mire importantly, I struggle to eat in front of others for fear of being judged. I won't eat in front of someone who is not eating. I won't even eat in front of my DH if he's not eating.
I have managed to lose weight in the past, but as predicted, it's gone back on.
I hate being like this and I hate the assumption that 'eat less' is the only answer. As others have said, alcoholics, drug addicts, smokers all had a choice to begin using those substances but everybody has to eat, which is why it is so hard to change habits that have been formed over a lifetime.
Do I think I have an eating disorder? I don't honestly know. I do know that somehow getting drunk on a regular basis is regarded as a laugh, workmates sneaking out for a crafty smoke is joked about, stories about how many drugs people took at university are treated as a rite of passage. Yet if I take a cake from the office table on a colleague's birthday, there is always one 'kind' colleague who will offer to share it with me - seriously, do people share a mini roll? And whilst it's meant kindly, it just makes me all the more aware that I am overweight.

For me it's very similar to alcoholism. I was obese and I lost 1- stone. Now I keep it down but it's s constant struggle. I gain a stone in 1 month and lose it the next. Luckily I can keep a lid on it now in that as soon as I'm a stone up I knuckle down and lose it again, but I'm either clean eating or binging, there's no middle ground for me, like either sober or drinking.

I lost 11 stone

Eileen's post makes an important point about hormones. I do eat what I want when I want now but thinking about it there are some quite substantial changes I've implemented now which I do fairly automatically a lot of the time.

First is I don't have a lot of gluten as I feel better without it overall. I generally stick to lower GI carbs as a rule and try and eat sweet things at a meal if I'm going to minimise insulin spikes throughout the day. Plus I often don't eat after 6pm and 7.30am so have a 13.5 hour period without food, though the week before my period I do find I need food later so eat it if I feel I need it. I also eat at maintenance levels regularly in the hope this might help leptin levels and I have slowed the weight loss down from 2lbs a week to half to a pound a week, though my losses aren't linear. I don't stick to the above all the time but I did I think pre gallbladder surgery as really needed to meet my weight loss target for op.

The regain figures are highly depressing and I've been thinking a lot about how I will maintain and how I can succeed this time where I have failed in the past. The studies on the Biggest Loser contestants where they show vastly reduced metabolic rates 6 years later are a total eye opener. Too early to say if I will succeed longterm at the moment but I will do everything I can to try and I'm reasonably confident I'll be able to as we have significantly changed our lifestyle and a healthy weight very important to DH's diabetes. Also my Mother at the end and years before was in a right state and I can not put my children through what I went through with it all.

How long ago did you lose the weight MistressPage?

6 years

I did it because I wanted a baby, and him now being here is what keeps me in control

That is encouraging to hear, thanks

I think some people overeat and become obese as a result of mental health issues - in that sense, very similar to anorexia. But I also think sugar is addictive and some people find it hard to control how much they eat. It’s not unlike an addiction to tobacco. All they need to do is break the addiction.

@MistressPage

Well done, that is incredible.

But I guess that’s another big difference. You can be dramatically over a healthy weight and still feel okay living a relatively normal life while there is only a few stone you can be below a healthy weight until you just die.
That as well as the lack of support can make obesity seem maybe harder to recover from than anorexia. I have never in the life even reached 11 stone and the weight I have needed to gain and the time it took to do so seems tiny and easy is comparison to many other peoples weight loss stories.

@BananaSandwichesEveryDay

Defiantly the problem is that every body needs a relationship with food and it is so difficult to get that right without slipping down either end of the scale.
You can have no relationship with alcohol or drugs and you are much less likely to develop an addiction or unhealthy relationship with these than you are with food.
So much of what you said is the complete opposite end of what I experienced being anorexic, I will also not eat when others aren’t and people will suggest sharing food with me because they think I can’t manage it alone, it is done with good intentions like it is with you but it dosnt work it just makes me more aware of the calories and amount I am eating.
I don’t know if diagnosing as an eating disorder would be helpful but I do think people who are dangerously overweight need to be given the same support that I was, it is so difficult once a problem with food has emerged to correct it on your own.

@NotThereEileen

I think the only reason obesity has a higher mortality rate and harder recovery than anorexia is because it is not taken seriously and people are not given proper support.
A lot of people who are overweight struggle on their own to maintain weight loss because if you tend to over eat and have an unhealthy relationship with food you always will.
I will always have anorexia and have an unhealthy relationship with my weight and food, that can’t be cured and the only reason I haven’t starved my self to death is because when my weight has gotten dangerously low I have been hospitalised and forced treatment until I return to a healthy weight.
We allow people on the other end of the scale to damage their health and eat themselves to death. This needs to be treated as seriously as anorexia and the mortality rates and illnesses linked to obesity would wall dramatically.

@LemonShark

That is what I am so torn on. In so many ways I see the fat acceptance movement to be so good and empowering, calling out fat shaming also.
But I know as an anorexic I saw the pro ana websites as positive, I thought they were helping people like me and doing good but there not they are evil and they are encouraging and accepting anorexia.
There is a really unclear line between not fat shaming and disrespecting people who are overweight without normalising and accepting obesity, it is like be dangerously overweight unhealthy and wrong.

Yeah the pro fat acceptance movement does have some pros, reducing fat shaming and tackling discrimination against cat people. But the part that promotes how it's fine to be obese and silences anyone disagreeing with 'fat shaming' label is truly toxic!

A poster much earlier very sensibly and clearly said An anorexic won't recover without appropriate psychological support, and many obese people won't either. Where diets (and exercise) routinely fail, you're not going to get anywhere unless you address why, otherwise the cycle repeats over and over fruitlessly.

Seems entirely logical, but compare it to Hackmum's "All they need to do is break the addiction." Oh well, that's alright then.

But the part that promotes how it's fine to be obese and silences anyone disagreeing with 'fat shaming' label is truly toxic! - these are not the same thing. Promoting obesity is the same as the pro anorexia argument - clearly wrong.

Disagreeing with fat shaming is being a decent human being.

YABVU

You can't tell by someone's weight or size whether or not they have an eating disorder. Someone with bulimia or anorexia nervosa will not always be thin. Some die, long before they get there. Furthermore, there are many reasons why someone is extremely thin.
Someone who is fat can be fat for many reasons, eating disorders being one of them.

You talk about respecting people, but when you make assumptions about people's health and eating habits based on size alone, you are doing the exact opposite. You are both fat-shaming and thin-shaming at the same time. Nice work.

Obesity in itself is not an eating disorder, in the same way that merely being thin is not anorexia.

I think it's really stupid and inappropriate to suggest it is. When I was very overweight, I did not have an eating disorder. I just liked to eat far too much and not take any exercise.

Yes. To me the compulsion to keep eating and eating is a disorder. & the lying to self and others - eg that it's a (vague?) medical condition causing weight gain, bears that out. But we live in a sizeist society so unless the obesity is morbid and life-threatening, it won't be nipped in the bud before it gets to morbid stage. I know a few people who've had hypnotherapy to address eating compulsion, and it's worked. I wish it could be offered on NHS..I'm going to do same as I've issues with over-eating albeit at times address that by going carb-free. & I exercise so not hugely overweight. But I'm sick of the compulsion to eat so I want a way of leaving food alone even if it's calling to me from the fridge!

Over-eaters are expected to have willpower, and are looked down on if they don't. It's amazing the number of people who assume a right to lecture people on weight, to beadily watch them and then smugly comment if say a friend puts on a couple of pounds. So yes, it's a disorder but won't be recognised/accepted as one in widespread fashion

I do think that there are a lot of people who have a very unhealthy relationship with food and eating, but not bad enough to be medically recognised as an eating disorder.
I tend to struggle with emotional eating and have a problem eating too much. I also have bit of an all or nothing personality so when I restrict food I am most successful when I'm very strict and live on quite a restricted diet. Again not very psychologically healthy. I find eating a normal healthy diet does not come naturally to me. I know there are a lot of others who have food issues that trouble them but are not bad enough to need medical intervention and most of the time you can manage it yourself. I think sometimes it's fine when things are going well but it means if life gets very stressful your eating (or not eating) can get out of control quite easily.

Yes, I do. In fact, I watched the Louis Theorux documentary on Anorexia (which was very sad and moving) and thought that I wished they would do a documentary properly exploring the other side of the coin - people who feel as driven to eat too much (as opposed to assuming it's because they are just greedy), as those who who feel psychologically driven to not eat. Apologies if that is poorly worded in any way. My heart is for both communities.

@hotmilkandcrunchynuts & @InternetHoopJumper

I agree, and my title and OP may of worded that wrong.
Of course breing over or underweight is alone not enough to be considered an eating disorder.
However the difference is when my weight dropped to a dangerously low level I was hospitalised and then assessed and diagnosed with anorexia, this included need for other symptoms to be present and physical causes of me being underweight to be ruled out I was then given forced treatment to return me to a healthy bmi.
If your weight is dangerous at the other end is should be taken just as seriously, support and intervention needs to occur to prevent people from eating themselves to death just like it does to prevent anorexics from starving themselves.
Being clinically obese should not in itself be considered an eating disorder, but if someone is obese they need more support, this firstly should mean understanding and diagnosing why they are overweight which may be due to a thyroid conditions or an eating disorder for example then appropriate treatment needs to be given to try and address this.

There are many causes of someone being overweight but your thread I plies being overweight is caused by a psychological disorder, as anorexia is.

In the same way not everybody who is extremely underweight isn’t anorexic, not everybody overweight is eating for comfort or distress etc.

It’s too simplistic a viewpoint to have.

So no, obesity is obviously not the exact opposite of anorexia.

Someone who is underweight may have a disease such as cancer, may have selective eating disorder, may have hyperthyroidism or may have anorexia.

Someone who is obese or overweight may have a hypothyroidism, have an eating disorder, may not like exercise or may have something like Prader Willi Syndrome.

I think most often people who both over or under eat are struggling emotionally.
I have heard people who comfort eat or who have a binge disorder compare this emotional struggle and pain to feeling empty, empty of happiness or love etc and so they eat to fill this emptiness.
When I am struggling instead I think I would describe my pain as being full, I feel so full of hurt, stressed and out of control that I don’t eat to gain back control.
An eating disorder comes in when this goes to far and the individual now has little control of the amount they are eating, it becomes an additction.
Just like some people who may drink to deal with pain could easily become dependant and slip into addiction.