To sue the NHS over my birthing experience

[boomitscountginula]

Now before I get flamed to death. I do appreciate my birth story isn't as bad as some but, I now refuse to have another baby unless I can get assurances that this won't happen again, and the only way I can do so is to go private, I think.? It was traumatic to me.

I had a quite easy birth, in terms of how long it took "officially" but I wasn't listened to and have a couple of long lasting injuries I think could of been prevented if they believed I was in labour to begin with.

My birth story: I woke up the day after my due day and had lost my plug over night. Went for a stretch and sweep at lunch, (planned as it was my first) with my midwife said I was 3cm already.

Fabulous, no pain at the minute, now 3cm easy birth.. so I thought.

Went home had a nap, woke up with contractions near tea time. By 9pm they where regularly 6 minutes apart so rang the maternity ward, had a phone assessment and went in.

Got into maternity triage, in absolute agony, had a physical exam and the triage said:

"Your only 3 cm, you need to come home and come back."

I said well as you can see, I am contacting every 6 minutes and less now, the pain is overwhelming and I feel like I need to push.

She tutted and said in all her experience she had never been wrong and I had hours to go, so needed to go home.

I was in bits at this news and crumbled. I never wanted an epidural and chose pethidine (sic) and gas and air. So agreed I would go home but I needed some kind of pain killer, that I could have with my chosen birth plan. I really put my foot down and said I will go home but only if I can get a pain killer stronger that the 2 paracetamol I had taken already.

She said she would find a doctor, but never came back.

Meanwhile I then go into the advanced stages of Labour. Bare in mind I had two paracetamol and my waters haven't broken. It's like trying to birth a gym ball.

I am literally screaming in pain in a side room in maternity triage, pushing and effectively giving birth myself. My partner and my mum (both birth partners) took it in turns to find anyone. But no one came for 45 minutes.

After 45 minutes a junior midwife came in and said "oh my god your in labour".

Me and her literally ran to the deliver ward, where I was given gas and air.

I took a massive gulp of it, and was told off, because I should only take it when I am in pain and contracting..... never mind the two hours I have just been in hospital alone labouring, without a monitor on my baby or any pain relief.

I am still not hooked up to monitor, the only medical intervention is gas and air right now. My waters still haven't broken, 4 minutes later I was given the pethidine. 2 minutes after that I crown, baby in sack. Midwife broke the waters and my son was born. My official record shows that I was in labour for 9 minutes.

I had pain relief 4 minutes into my 9 minute birth and at no point was I on any kind of contraction monitoring machine. Nothing monitoring baby's heartbeat etc etc. I might as well have birthed in the woods.

I also split my right labia in two during the birth. The midwife didn't want to stitch it because it wasn't that bad.. yet I couldn't pee, unless in the bath for 3 weeks, and now that side is an inch longer than the other. Causing me, well you can imagine.

Start to finish I was treated like dirt, I was left labouring in a room alone, I was belittled and injured without proper treatment. And now I am afraid to be pregnant again.

I love the NHS, but they have let me down, massively. I am permanently injured (labia) and mentally scarred. But hate the idea of sueing the NHS on a theoretical level...

Not to speak on behalf of the OP, but women often don’t complain or leave it late for a myriad of reasons - mainly that they don’t have all the time in the world to pen a complaint when they’ve got a newborn, and even if they did it IS a traumatic experience they don’t necessarily want to relive. Coupled with the fact that talking about birth and parenthood with others in anything other than a praising light is still quite taboo.

I’m not sure suing will get the closure you want (and the nhs trusts put aside a pot of money for litigation costs each year) but this organisation might be helpful if you do decide to do it again:
www.aims.org.uk/

FWIW, a friend recently had a very similar experience (though without the damage thankfully) and is also traumatised by this.

Nhs workers are increasingly under pressure to deliver more for less. This doesn’t stop us being accountable for our actions and patients need to complain when the service is not good enough. I work for the nhs.

In my opinion, the 'healthy baby/healthy mother' goal has NOT been met when a mum is left traumatised from her delivery.

I had a terrible time giving birth to my 1st. I was treated like some sort of naughty child. Not as a respected adult or an equal. I wasn't listened to or believed and not a spare thought was had for my dignity, privacy, consent ect. I had a better time with my 2nd at a different hospital but I think crap treatment of women is a huge problem in maternity care

I think your expectations aren’t/weren’t realistic.

I am glad I posted, and I knew I would get flamed for using the S word, in my defence, when I posted this I was quite upset about things.

I am so sorry to hear about other people's experiences, and agree we shouldn't just suck it up just because we was lucky enough to get a health baby at the end.

This shouldn't be a lottery, at the expense of the child or the mother.

I wish I did complain but my PND was diagnosed post 8 months and it was there much earlier, plus well a new born baby.... things aren't that easy.

I honestly fully appreciate I may have not had the most traumatic birth experience, and said this in my op.

It's not a suck it up and get on with it scenario though either.

I have actually never thought about counciling for my birthing experience, and can see why this would be unbelievable and an obvious solution for some. So this is something that I will look into.

Thanks again for all those sharing there experiences and your kind replies. Xx

I agree with Misty - you need closure and suing isn't going to provide that. Please make an appointment to see your GP and explain that you still have painful physical scars and mental trauma stemming from your experiences of giving birth. Ask if they can refer you for counselling and for surgery to repair the physical damage.

But YWBU to sue - a wodge of money isn't going to make your problems go away or be easier to deal with.

On what grounds would you sue? Do you have a loss of income?

It's a common misconception round here that you can only sue if you can prove financial loss. It is perfectly possible to sue for damages for pain and suffering, including mental suffering.

I won't give my dc1s full birth story- too outing. It was horrific. What I will tell is a minor glimpse.
I told them I had infection. My waters had gone green. I had a fever. I began hallucinating. 14hours later a dr said to me why is your pad green? How long has it been this colour? I cried. The dumb bitch hadn't tested the first time I told her- or subsequent times.
My baby went into distress. We both are alive because of amazing surgeons.
I was traumatised by it but didn't know I could have a debriefing or complain. Swore I'd never have another! Dc2 is perfect though. I'm glad I didn't let my bad experience stop me.
Op please don't let it prevent you having another dc if it's what you want. Every birth is so different

For what it is worth - Being a 2nd time mom going into labour with your previous history, they won't mess around. At the first twinge they'll want you to come in and stay there.

"Trauma is not something determined by how you decide to approach something. Its a physical response - primarily driven by how your nervous system responds. So don't feel too smug that your such a trooper - your body just didn't happen to respond in a way which embedded a trauma response."

Prof Edgar Jones (Kings College London ) has said: "The development and expansion of trauma as a concept that can be applied to daily life proceeds from the Vietnam War onwards, and it’s striking that psychology as an academic and clinical discipline expands at this point, too.......post-Vietnam, there’s an acceptance that we can all suffer from psychological disorders after traumatic events."

Basically because we expect for things that are hard to result in trauma we suffer from trauma when hard things happen. Births are hard and each one is different. Medical staff can be in need of training and development to have a good bedside manner but not every eventuality can be dealt with or trained to. And women are sold the idea of perfect births which causes disappointment and frustration when they dont happen.

I wonder if women who give birth suddenly at home or in the car on the way to the hospital feel as traumatised as women who are in hospital but dont get the perfect birth scenario.

I think the OP needs counselling and support to move on. A complaint could be made but that wont solve how the OP really feels.

I might as well have birthed in the woods

This rings so true for me OP, left to labour without pain relief or medical attention. After much tutting about me not handling the pain very well, (At the time I was actually going from a couple of cm to fully dilated in about an hour with no pain relief and basically just gritting my teeth - I have a good pain tolerence) midwife finally brought pethidine. I said No, I wanted an epidural.

While she was stropping off finding a doctor I felt the need to push and delivered DS to one panicking, totally out of her depth, student midwife. She didn't have a clue and I tore really badly.

And yeah, the woods would probably have been more hygienic than the bathroom I was expected to clean up in.

The sad thing is, this happened 24 years ago. You'd think that in 20 years they would have learned to listen to women.

Opportunity only on page one, I am aghast at the responses you have had!! It wasn't ideal! What an understatement. AS FOR suing I have no idea, talk to medical negligence people they will assess and tell you if you have a case. Without doubt I would make a massive complaint about midwife who abandoned you!! It's a miracle your baby came out alive, you are obviously traumatised.

In your case I would use this to get an elc. You have so man more guarantees about the birth and you know people will be giving you pain relief and attending you.
Talk to birth trauma association as well it's appalling. Elc has been A great option for many women who have experienced trauma like you

By the way the birth trauma website puts into perspective what trauma actually is. One person cannot possibly judge what is or isn't traumatic to someone else. That's very demeaning to do that. If op is feeling like this four years on, she is traumatised.

You are entitled to have a debrief about your birth with staff from the hospital, I would look into this. And then yes you are absolutely allowed to book a c-section for a subsequent birth if you feel that it's necessary. This is written up in the NICE guidelines. They can try to help you feel more comfortable with the idea of vaginal birth but if you are very clear on your wishes then they have to offer the ELCS.

I wouldn’t sue. That’s not going to achieve anything except penalise an already struggling nhs. But def make a formal complaint. Talk to the hospital and engage them. From my experience most in the nhs are extrememely dedicated and care a great deal. X x

I'm not going to dismiss your trauma OP. Just because others have had worse does not negate your experience.

But, to give the other side of things- I had a highly managed labour. I was induced as an emergency and hooked up to monitors. I had great care and felt calm, little pain and all was well. I was checked and I was 5cms. It was coming up to shift handover so my midwife bid me goodbye and good luck as it seemed obvious I'd be ok for the short time handover happened.

Except when my new midwives took over they walked into the room to find me pushing. They told me to stop because I wasn't far enough along but I said I could not stop this, I wasn't doing it consciously. They checked me again and I was at 10cms.

There wasn't enough time for them to read my birth plan or notes, I was crowning so it was all hands to the pump. One was frantically setting up the post birth kit, the other was coaching me. DS arrived very quickly and I suffered a 3rd degree tear as a result.

When they called the consultant to come and check me she had time to read my notes and they were told off in front of me as she'd wanted me to have an episiotomy if it looked necessary. They explained that everything had happened within minutes of handover and there hadn't been time. I was apologised to and told theyd sort me out. As I was about to be stitched up I suffered a massive haemorrhage and ended up rushed to theatre.

I have a rectocele now, but that's the worst of it. I was very unwell for a while as I lost so much blood and transfusions didn't fix it.

But my point is that even in a highly managed situation, unexpected things can happen. Similar happened with a family member. I didn't feel the need to have a debrief or counselling, but she did and said it really helped her.

I think the difference here was that I was listened to and looked after. There are many women out there who don't feel that way. I consider myself lucky that as I have a lot of health issues I have learned to assert myself with health professionals.

You can still request a debrief and go over your notes. The NHS keeps your maternity notes for 25 years after birth. Yours may be in storage now, but provided they've recorded everything correctly they should be easy to source. Contact PALS to set things in motion.

IF you are not happy with any answers you get from a debrief you would be able to open a complaint from that. However, having worked in an NHS complaints department I have to say that all you would get is an apology stating that they were sorry and that staff had been spoken to. IMO there's nothing that would constitute a Serious Incident, which is where there have been serious errors which could constitute negligence and requires a full investigation.

HORRIFIED by some of these responses and some of these people who are saying to OP to suck it up and "that's what birth on the NHS is like."

It's not a rugger-bugger initiation ceremony where whoever can stomach 20 pints and not vomit is the most "manly," or the "toughest."

OP I am so sorry this happened to you and it had this effect on you. You should do whatever you need to be able to get over it.

@Ermm I personally do think that if you expect to be traumatised and tell people what has happened and they act shocked and say that's terrible that you can affect your recovery from that event. There is a psychological condition (not sure that is the right word for it) called 're-traumatisation' which makes your recovery from an event much more difficult by reliving it over and over. The op would probably very much benefit from professional counselling to help her move past what happened with her first birth, however it is unlikely that suing the NHS is going to help her. I certainly do not 'feel smug' or that I am 'such a trooper'! Personal insults are not particularly helpful when people are trying to help and give their own perspective on the op's situation.

Due to a similar situation my notes said I had a 4 minute labour in my first pregnancy (I think it was nearer 27 hours!)

For my second pregnancy they kept me in from 36 weeks.

@Aureservoir re those missing hospital notes of your son's birth.

Do you think they may have turned up? It's worth checking if it will put your mind at rest.

You or rather your son as he's an adult can ask at the hospital now for his hospital records. I've just got dd's (young adult) and they have everything from her birth to all hospital involvement in her care to present day. Hers were photocopies sent through the post, the charges can vary up to £40 in our Trust. You can view them for free at the hospital if you make an appointment.

pcse.england.nhs.uk/services/gp-records/accessing-medical-records/
"For hospital health records, the individual should contact the records manager or patient services manager at the relevant hospital trust."
www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories/pages/nhstrustlisting.aspx

I never realised that every person has hospital records over and above GP records. GP charged £50 for a photocopy of theirs.

I've had 2 c sections, first one was a walk in the park, everything fine, the second one however was very different. DS2 swallowed amniotic fluid which resulted in pneumonia and a collapsed lung, he spent 2 weeks in special care. The care that was provided was brilliant, nurses were wonderful, I also spent 2 weeks in hospital, given a room to myself as I didn't have baby with me. Would I have considered legal action? No way, unfortunately these things happen, DS is now a super fit almost 16 year old, it's not affected him in any way. Before I left the hospital I made a generous donation to the hospital charitable fund and also to the special care baby unit as I was grateful for the care my son had received. I've worked for the NHS for 27 years and I see how underfunded they are and how frontline staff have a daily struggle to provide the best care they can. Some NHS bodies are better than others but unless it means that you or your family need additional funding for ongoing care you shouldn't sue as it takes away funds for other patients. Just my point of view and I know that not all will agree.

I never realised that every person has hospital records over and above GP records.

You will probably have medical notes/records at every hospital you have ever attended. You only have one set of GP records that are transferred whenever you change GP surgery, but as hospitals are grouped into separate trusts and often run different systems, it's possible that each Trust you've visited will have it's own set of records for you, even if it was only an A&E visit.

Your summary care record is administered by your GP and can be accessed anywhere by professionals with access (including pharmacists and Dentists) but it is only a summary and does not contain your entire medical history.

As a rule, NHS records are not centralised. My life as a patient database/records manager would be so much easier if they were!

Sue, no. Complain, definitely.

I have had 3 births, and can honestly say they were all managed by crappy, dismissing, rude, neglectful midwives.

Being brief.

1st - sent home with contractions 2 minutes apart. In agony. Told to have a bath and paracetamol. Was told it would be ages. It was ages. I came back after 10 hours of labouring in agony, every 2 minutes.

Was told to go home as only 3cm dialated. I explained I was in agony. Tutting. Umming. Eventually found me a bed. Kept asking for pain relief. Eventually got some after 12 or so hours.

No body monitored me. No one picked up until it was too late that DS’s heart rate was 72 bpm. A huge team was in the room. I was so tired. After 90 minutes of pushing, DS was born blue and resuscitated.

Aftercare was disgusting. Snorted at when I asked for painkillers. Laughed at when I asked help going to the toilet. Not believed when I said my labia felt on fire. Eventually after several hours, they finally took a look. I was swollen about 4 times the size. They did they swiftly mumble sorry and get me ice packs.

2nd - very dismissive midwife. Did not accept I was in that much pain. Did not accept my contractions were once again 2 minutes apart. Refused pain relief again. Took so much asking for gas and air. No sympathy. Got pissed off when she asked me a question and then I contracted, so couldn’t answer. She sighed so loudly. Irritated to wait.

Couldn’t deliver the placenta. Everyone was getting worried. I kept saying I needed a wee. They ignored me. I kept saying what if my bladder is full and in the way? Eventually they listened, catheter fitted, wee drained, placenta pushed out.

After care shit. Again. No food. Forgotten about. Left with labouring ladies, no room on labour ward.

3rd - home birth. Not a nice midwife again. Clearly wanted to be at home, and not here. Student midwife took my blood pressure day before, which she took wrong. Had it been checked properly, they’d have seen I was on the way to pre-eclampsia.

Also, midwife yanked out the placenta. Who does this?! I was pushing fine.

Rushed to hospital next day, where actually, the doctor who saw me was just lovely. I cried so much. Beta blockers for a few months got my blood pressure down eventually.

All is well. 3 healthy babies. But my god, I swear midwives have successes based on luck, not judgement/actual care.

These experiences are not unusual. Sadly.

And sorry, that wasn’t brief.

You do all realise that the NHS, like all health funds, is insured? If you sue or require compensation for other reasons, they don't just take it off some other patient, a permament insurance fund deals with it? It's not like they are, sorry cancer patient, some one decided their birth was tricky, no treatment for you!
The NHS is struggling from massive underfunding, but individuals deciding to sue or not will not affect their insurance per se.
OP, I feel for you. I think def go see a counselor and go from there. It might provide the solace you need.

Are you American, OP?

Nice.