To think the menstrual cycle affects our careers?

[Fianceechickie]

First day of AF today and I feel as usual, like a worn out dish rag. Most months I feel like this for a few days before/after starting. Not at work today but thinking ‘how the hell do I get through work feeling like this?’ I must have spent a quarter of my working life being well below par, plus when you add the probably dodgy decisions and irrational reactions I’ve made while having pms I can’t help thinking ‘what if all the hormonal stuff wasn’t there?’ What do you ladies think? I know some women have easier cycles but are women put at a disadvantage by hormones?

At my work the men take far more sick days than the women for various ailments.

Just saying.

I think people’s attitudes to women’s biological illnesses are awful. For a start the joke is always to feel sorry for the man who has to put up with a raging and emotional girlfriend with PMS rather than the woman going through the crap herself.

And don’t get me started on the way doctors dismiss women’s pain. Has anyone been watching the whole vaginal mesh scandal? It’s going to be bigger than thalidomide. Hundreds of thousands of women worldwide in crippling pain because of money and incompetence. So many women’s pain dismissed by doctors for years before it finally snowballed.

So yes it would be nice if a focus on PMS and periods improved women’s lives but my guess is that it would be used against them.

Given the current intensity of media coverage of sexual harassment, it's looking like a huge number of men will end up in the category of "testosterone badly affected their careers".

I can't say my periods have had an impact in my work. Colleague yesterday told a graphic story about giving talks to large room of people while wearing obviously blood-stained trousers . She's quite successful in her area.

One talk we have at work is how men are so crap at dealing with emotions & sometimes this directly affects their work, too (for the worse). Conversely, the women fret (rather than feel proud like the men do) about juggling loads of tasks. MNers talk about how men will apply for a job when they only meet half the criteria when women won't -- how this slows our careers down. I feel all these factors are bigger, on average, than our respective hormonal inconveniences.

I find CD1 tough but have always had short and relatively pain-free periods and long cycles apart from post-mc. My friends have varying degrees of difficulty including one friend with crippling endo.

I agree flexibility is key as there is no one-size-fits-all. This would benefit everyone whether menstruating or not - plenty of reasons why men or post-menopausal women would also benefit from the flexibility to work from home or take time in lieu a couple of times a month.

How about considering the female experience as the default? Menstruation is normal for 50 per cent of humans for many years, and many women will also have pain, complications etc. Why should the male experience be what we have to compare ourselves to?

I don’t understand why there hasn’t been more research into this issue. I, as I’m sure many of us do, look at other women and think ‘how the hell are they excelling in that career, managing DCs, social life, marriage etc etc’ and the answer you get in mumsnet and elsewhere is often ‘positive mindset, cliches about being jealous, take control blah blah. What if those women who are more successful are the ones that have four weeks a month to thrive, some of us have maybe one? By the time we’ve had a horrendous heavy period and all the inconvenience, anxiety, exhaustion that involves (which can often carry on after AF while body attempts to make up for blood loss) and two weeks post ovulation in the grip of pms (which doesn’t even need to be that severe to adversely affect us), potentially other gynae issues as other posters have mentioned, of course we are going to have careers affected, either because we’ve made decisions based on what we’re physically or mentally able to cope with, and people will have made decisions about us, based on our inconsistencies in performance at work, misunderstood reluctance, taking things on and not being able to see them through, bad attendance or whatever. I’m not a feminist. What’s the point in seeing women as a ‘tribe’ when, as this discussion shows, there are so many things that divide us. Women do just as much harm to each other’s cause as men do. You might get sympathy from a man who couldn’t hope to understand the menstrual cycle, you don’t from a woman who thinks she does because she has one and ‘you just need to get on with it, like I do’. We’re scratching our heads thinking ‘why do I feel inferior?’ Why haven’t I achieved that much? Why am I not on top of that? Maybe we need to look to our hormones for the answer...

I don't really see women as a tribe. I guess some people like to.

Lots of people live with some kind of chronic issue that interferes with how they function. Or then you have folk who are very nice & work extra hard but they can't achieve much because fundamentally ....not that clever... or lack opportunities... or have caring duties... or PTSD. Life is not fair and some are privileged. Unfair disadvantages are endless, can't try to redress all.

Absolutely. I think menstrual cycle affects women differently. It affects me a lot. I found myself crying in the toilet over a petty remark once which I couldn't understand the day after. And yes I get irritated easily some days but I've learned not to react on the spot so I dont make a fatal mistake. But yes it can affect careers unless you manage it.

And not to mention my cramps. It is not mild by any definition, I could roll around in pain! I also have to learn to manage it by always carrying strong pain killers and even hot water bottle with me.

My periods were taking over my life. As I completed my family 15 years ago, I had surgery to help it. 4 month’s down the line. Life is much better and I’m glad I sought help.

OP I feel like you’ve misinterpreted a lot of the posters disagreeing with you or pointing out issues with the original post. Most posters who have easier periods have not said they have no sympathy or that others should just get on with it. Most posters have agreed that a different approach to flexible working would be a great thing for many reasons - menstrual cycles, caring duties, mental/physical health issues etc.

I think it is a shame you do not think you are a feminist when you have this interest in researching and solving a problem that affects many women. No, we are not all one tribe but we are all affected by living in a patriarchal system, which has knock-on effects in various areas of our lives such as this.

It usually doesn't, but I try not to fly on a long haul flight when I have mine as I am visually impaired and you can imagine. It's not very comfortable, maybe for other people with visual impairment, it's no problem, but to each his own or her own. Just a sidenote, but the girls high school uniform in Vietnam is all white, and they don't like it either.

Yes it does but that is not a weakness of women, its a weakness of the medical system and the way women are fobbed off and told to put up with severe pain

The poster saying that we cant adress all inequalities so we shouldn't try... funny how that kind of comment only ever comes out with things that are unfair on women.

I wrote implying, not saying?

If your periods are bad enough to affect your work several days a month, you’re not having the ‘women’s experience ‘, you have a health condition. I don’t doubt that some women suffer really badly (I’ve had uterine conditions of my own), but chronic suffering is not the norm - and it’s not fair to make the majority of women less employable (which is what period days off would do*) on the basis of one end of the spectrum. After all, sickle cell anaemia is something that only affects (some) black people - but we don’t have special leave designated for black people on this basis.

The elephant in the room is the state of medical interest/ knowledge/ care in this area. Women shouldn’t be tucking themselves up in a cocoon of glorified womanly suffering and moaning about the patriarchy - they should be able to get medical care that effectively deals with the problem while leaving their options open. Might sound like cloud cuckoo, but study after study shows that women have to push for years to even be taken seriously. static1.squarespace.com/static/5757c9a92eeb8124fc5b9077/t/58d8c98b1b10e366b431ba06/1490602405791/APPG+Womens+Health+March+2017+web+title.pdf even once diagnosed, they are often not told of all their options.
Sort that out and we wouldn’t need to be having this discussion.

*If an interviewee cocked her interview up and said “Well, it’s because I’m on the 1 week in 4 where I’m in the grip of womanliness so a bit hopeless ”, then no I wouldn’t employ her. Perhaps if there was evidence that she was otherwise very good and it was a job that could be done effectively over 3 weeks in 4 and she was OK with effectively working for 3/4 salary...but how likely is that?

I do have a health condition, menstrual migraines. I have tried various medications and none are effective enough. They affect me quite severely.

and it’s not fair to make the majority of women less employable (which is what period days off would do) on the basis of one end of the spectrum*

I don't see how more flexible working in any work place allowing some days to work from home would negatively impact anyone. If I can work from home I am equally as productive as at work, if I can't then I'm not coming in; a choice a manager would have to make.

Feminism really isn't about women being a 'tribe' and always supporting, agreeing and sympathising with each other.