...... to think it is profoundly anti feminist to use the word "cunt"...

[BertrandRussell]

....to describe, for example, an abusive violent man? I find the idea that, when looking for a word to describe awful, awful behaviour, we use a word for women's genitals horribly misogynistic.

Or am I just stuck in the 70s?

Edmund- if you think that cunt as a swear word has no connection with cunt as a word for women's genitals, do you have a theory as to why it is such a bad swear word?

Dear OP I couldn't agree more and given how keen MNHQ are on zapping threads, I'd like to see them zapping threads with offensive swearing in.

All swear words can be deemed offensive. Who’s to say which swears remain in posts? If that’s the case, any form of swearing should be banned.

Edmund, what part of we all know it has two meanings do you fail to grasp.? I don’t think I can help you any further.

I will give it one last shot, the discussion is that a word which means female genitalia but also means an unpleasant person and is perceived as the worst profanity in the English language is not and should not be acceptable to us as woman.

IMultiple times the two meanings have been posted. No one said they think if they call someone a cunt they are calling them female genitals that is riduculius. The discussion on the table is the word has two meanings and that it is unacceptable and profoundly anti feminist that the worst profanity we have in English language to label someone unpleasant also crudely means female genitalia.

BertrandRussell firstly, I have said I can see how they have a history, how the word developed into a 'offensive word' from it's original meaning. Why? I personally think it's the taboo of the era it emerged from. The fact they, in medieval times couldn't even bring themselves to describe a woman's parts but through slag doesn't suggest a 'hatred of women', merely embarrassment of their mention. It didn't start as 'the most offensive word' - it probably became a dare of the time to say it. Possibly a joke term, especially in certain circles (sailor talk as it were).

Why don't I believe it's purely historically derogatory to women? Well as many here have said, there is a huge history of demeaning behaviour and language towards women. So logically speaking, shouldn't be using 'cunt' as an insult be less offensive than it actually is? History shows us that society has had little care to use derogatory terms both about and towards women. It seems more the case that 'cunt' has something 'more' about it than just another way to undermine women as a whole.

What precisely makes it such a vulgar word as a swear is a rather complicated matter. It's original form was bore likely out of embarrassment (using slang rather than speak of a woman's genitalia in any way), the taboo making it a 'dare' to say, an element of misogyny, an element of semantic broadening as it evolved over time into an insult and the change of language and the culture it was used in. All language and words change over time, any word can change its meaning completely to the original, even if the original still exists. So whilst I'm willing to accept there may have been an original misogynistic origins to the word, it was such a long time ago that the secondary meaning has long become a stand-alone version.

Ultimately, if there was a correlation between the swear being a purely misogynistic term, there would be far more historical evidence of the fact. Rather, it seems it was 'rough language' that in recent years became unacceptable in developing modern society and when put next to the original meaning became a very big 'no no'. So in short, the original meaning is possibly why it's such a 'bad word', but more of the taboo and embarrassment of it being an old slag word for vagina, rather than derogatory towards women.

And one of the things that illustrates that for me is that the words for men's genitals are generally milder, vaguely humorous and potentially affectionate, while the words for women's aren't-except in a few pockets of the country.

Really? I think that most words for women's genitals are generally milder, vaguely humorous and potentially affectionate.

"Cunt" is considered the worst, "Prick" is probably the male equivalent. Any of the others can be said "fondly" - dick & twat, knob & fanny, cock & minge - to be honest, even prick & cunt can be said affectionately & with humour. It's all very dependent on context.

I use the words that are (in)appropriate for the situation & the people I'm directing them at & don't think to much of the misogynistic connotations at the time.

is not and should not be acceptable to us as woman

Stop telling the rest of us what we should find unacceptable! You are unbearably arrogant and need to stop forcing your opinions on others as facts.

That is a far bigger problem that why cunt is a bad word. I don't give a fuck about the relative fucking cuntyness of swear words, I do give a fuck about being informed what I have to think and say. That's a much bigger feminist issue

You can prick your finger on a thorn.

You certainly can't cunt your finger on a thorn.

Knobs are not exclusive to the male appendage.

Nor is head.

Fanny is a girls name as is Dick a boy's name. (Fanny means bottom in the USA).

Twat is exclusive to the female genitals as is cunt.

Twat is exclusive to the female genitals as is cunt

No, twat also means to hit.

Swat means to hit.

Twat is this.

www.synonym.com/synonyms/twat

You can prick your finger on a thorn.

All you have said here is that 'prick' has developed more than one meaning. 'Prick' in English was originally slang for penis, and more often used in a crude, comical way (see Shakespear). Having been translated from its original language meaning 'to spear', until modern times it generally has kept its original meaning but with a vulgar double entendre. The reason it has not had centuries of becoming more offensive such as 'cunt', is that it's true non-English meaning is of no offence or relation to genitalia.

Elendon twat has an official definition as in 'to hit'. If we've learned anything from this thread, it's how important dictionaries are.

Nope, check a dictionary.

twat
twat,twɒt/Submit
nounvulgar slang
1.
a woman's genitals.
2.
a person regarded as stupid or obnoxious.
verbBRITISHinformal
1.
hit or punch (someone).
"if my best mate said that I'd twat him"

I'm going to argue that Cunt is slowly slipping away from being a term reserved solely for female genitals - Oxford Living Dictionary has it as -

NOUN
vulgar slang
1 A woman's genitals.
1.1 An unpleasant or stupid person.

so any "ownership" by women is already pretty diluted.

The same dictionary has this for "Prick" -

NOUN
vulgar slang
2 A man's penis.
2.1 A stupid or contemptible man.

'Stop telling the rest of us what we should find unacceptable! You are unbearably arrogant and need to stop forcing your opinions on others as facts. I don't give a fuck about the relative fucking cuntyness of swear words, I do give a fuck about being informed what I have to think and say. That's a much bigger feminist issue'

Yes it's like we're the gormless women all sat round while someone enlightens us. Bertsplaining if you like .

I am glad to have found a thread about this. Whenever I hear a man use the word I always want to tell him to curse with his own genitals, but I know that won't help so I curse with his instead. But I am fully aware that the negative connotations for cursing with female genitals are far more powerful than cursing with male genitals.

I feel the same way about the word "bitch". Yes, you can apply this to both men and women, but everyone is aware that the word itself is female and if used on a man, you are not only calling him a shitty person, but also imply that he is inferior like most people think women and girls are.

I have very rarely heard anyone, man or women, call a man a bitch.

I've only seen gay men be called a bitch, so there is homophobia in the mix as well

Also some gay men use that sort of language to each other- very complex dynamics going on there.....

I have very rarely heard anyone, man or women, call a man a bitch

I have. Quite common in my local vernacular.

A friend of mine frequently uses "vagina" as an insult, meaning weak. She uses cunt liberally, vagina is for when she is really annoyed. Obviously this is just a coincidence and bears no reference to the reproductive organs of a female.
Move along people, nothing to see here.

The most random insult I ever heard (from a gay man), was "sit on my face and lick my fallopian tubes". I have a female friend who used to routinely use "suck my dick" or "kiss my balls" as an insult.

BertrandRussell
Fascicle-but I do think we live in a misogynist society!

I know you do, but I was trying to get to the bottom of why you think it's ok to call your son a Dick whilst feeling so strongly about Cunt, and whether you think that's somehow ok because we live in a misogynistic society and he's male. Otherwise, it's difficult to reconcile your use of Dick with your objection to Cunt as an insult. Your reasoning that it's acceptable because you think that male genitalia insults are milder than female equivalents (I don't agree) does not seem a logical reason to support your use of Dick as an insult. I think it's a bit weird that part of your and Bluntness's objections to Cunt as an insult seem to centre on its status as the most offensive slur. Insults and their popularity evolve over time - would this be a non issue for you if Prick, Dick or Cock were to become more offensive than Cunt?

Out of interest, have you ever used Cunt as an insult?

As a linguist I can't help but be amused that a MNer with such a linguistic NC would post this of all threads.

I'll leave the etymological/semantic/ phonological discussions to those who are enjoying them.

I swear like a navvy don't have a problem with strong language per se, but in recent years I have moderated my own use. Broadly speaking, swearing is religious or anatomical, and I now eschew the religious (because 1. speech acts and 2. superstition).

And I've learned that in some of the darker regions of the internet, "Cunt" is used to mean "woman" within a community that is violently misogynistic. Using that word therefore feels as though I'm aligning myself with that worldview which in fact I decidedly and wholeheartedly reject.

For similar reasons I try to use "woman" in contexts where I'd use "man", rather than lady/gentleman or female/male or girl/boy. Because there are nasty people who systematically linguistically reduce women to ornamental "lady", voiceless "female" or infantilised "girl" where they would always give a man the dignity/respect of the plain "man". Sometimes it's clunky, but often it matters.

Fascicle- no I have never used count as an insult. Never in a long and reasonably sweary life.

And I thought, until this thread at least, that it was universally accepted that dick is a much milder insult than cunt- I am very surprised to discover that some people don't think that. I use dick to my ds in the phrase "Don't be a dick, mate" which is a quotation from something or other-and, in my mind, pretty mild. In fact, I think I have heard his Scout Leader use it!

Bertrand why do you feel the need to tell others what to think?