...... to think it is profoundly anti feminist to use the word "cunt"...

[BertrandRussell]

....to describe, for example, an abusive violent man? I find the idea that, when looking for a word to describe awful, awful behaviour, we use a word for women's genitals horribly misogynistic.

Or am I just stuck in the 70s?

You seem to be suggesting that the fact I have not changed my mind means that I have not been prepared to hear other views.

No, I'm suggesting you never had any intention of taking any contradictory point on board, just argue them down when presented to you. However, without any solid facts to back up your beliefs, it just reads as if you are trying to preach your opinions, rather than have any true discussion on etymology.

Preaching her opinion is what Bertrand does best.

Yes, Edmund describes it very well.

Itll be those dastardly opinions that we are all allowed to have myrtle

I disagree that bert was implying, in that post, that people are thick

there may be masses of posts where she is ...i just dont think its thats one

"The thing is OP you very rarely do change your mind. Consequently, you give the impression that you're broadcasting rather than discussing."
Fair enough. Do people change their minds very often? Do you?

I called my husband a twat the other day. I never usually call him names, I am quite against this during arguments actually but it was a heat of the moment expression of rage. And afterwards I did wonder whether I had been unfeminist in using that term. I am not otherwise unfeminist, in fact I am very aware of misogyny. As a linguist I decided that if a word has two meanings in a dictionary, it doesn't mean it has both meanings at once. (Eg duck in a pond/duck underneath = not the same).

And anyway, he was being one!

Fair enough. Do people change their minds very often? Do you?

More and more as I get older. I thought it was a side effect of realising how much I'd never experience. Perhaps that isn't universal.

Fair enough. Do people change their minds very often?

People who aren't preachy cunts do, yes.

Thinking further on this, I think those who are insisting that Cunt the swear word to mean a horrible person and Cunt meaning vagina are exactly the same thing are the ones being misogynistic. Because vaginas are lovely warm welcoming soft and pleasurable things, and its sad for you if you think they are something harsh and nasty.
But don't push your prejudices on the rest of us.

Do people change their minds very often? Do you?

People may not completely change their minds from original belief. However when presented with several alternative views, most wouldn't be so narrow minded to think their original thoughts were perhaps not as clear cut or correct as initially believed. I do not see you have acknowledged any opinion contrary to your own as a possible alternative, which leads me to believe you never had the intention to possibly reassess your views on the matter.

I have also found it highly ironic, and quite disappointing, that as someone who is very outspoken on religious threads and how beliefs should have some factual based, you do not respond adequately when asked to show proof of your own opinions.

BertrandRussell
Phonetics? Cunt. Cock, Dick, Arse. All similarly short and punchy.

In terms of composition and order of sounds, your other examples don't compare to Cunt. (Arse is especially benign, starting with a lengthened vowel sound and no k sound.)

I think the vast majority of people wouldn't give a second thought to female genitalia if/when they use the word as an insult. The English language is full of words with multiple meanings. You can use one word without all the other meanings running through your head.

Words can have more than one meaning.

"I have also found it highly ironic, and quite disappointing, that as someone who is very outspoken on religious threads and how beliefs should have some factual based, you do not respond adequately when asked to show proof of your own opinions"

I'm not sure how I can show proof of my opinion. It's an opinion. My opinion is that cunt is used as "the worst swear" because there is a long history of women being considered unclean and lesser and other and of "women's magic" being dark and dangerous. Think about "vagina dentata" for example. And this means that the worst thing you can call a man in particular is a cunt -the most female thing there is. Which mirrors our misogynist society. But I can't prove it. It just seems more logical than it just happening by coincidence.

'I'm not sure how I can show proof of my opinion. It's an opinion.'
Will everyone note this amusing chestnut and please repeat it back ad nauseaum should anyone^ bark 'link!!' on any future threads.

WUB

'This cake is very moist. This is the moistest cake I've ever eaten. You could smear, splurt and squirt a dollop of juicy things on top. I hope it doesn't congeal though.'

Jarring words yes, but again, it's the connotation. They reek of sex (moist, splurge, squirt) or dirtiness (smear, congeal) the phonics in themselves are inoffensive.

Speaking of splurge and squirt, now these are onomatopoeic Derxa. Cunt as you rightly inform us isn't, however, are you suggesting that onomatopoeic words are always pleasing to the ear? If not, what was your aim in using the term? I'm not following your thinking (especially as here are two rather grotty examples).

As for my own use of cunt. I use it simply because it is the worst word. I use it for it's ability to shock. If it were to be replaced by another worse word, then I'd use that instead. I would not use the N or P word because they don't mean "awful person", they are specific and racist terms. Cunt, as clearly shown already on this thread has two meanings.

If I was sexting, then I'd use cunt in it's second meaning, albeit also as a shock tactic. If the new worst word was relating to male genitalia, I'd use that too, for exactly the same reasons. This doesn't make me a misandrist, indeed I believe myself to be every bit equal to a man, and so too the reverse stands.

I'm not sure how I can show proof of my opinion. It's an opinion.

This means that the worst thing you can call a man in particular is a cunt -the most female thing there is. Which mirrors our misogynist society. But I can't prove it. It just seems more logical than it just happening by coincidence.

Sounds like a retrofit opinion to support your existing views about our misogynist society. I think that's a damaging approach and quite odd, since you also think it's ok to call your son a dick - a lesser insult but the principle that you apply to cunt as an insult should be the same, surely - unless you think men/male genitalia as insults are fair game in our misogynist society?

Is the basic premise of the thread not that a crude term for a woman’s genitals should not also be arguably the most offensive label for an unpleasant person in the English language.

That as women we should take a stand against that and not use the word as an offensive label, and that if we do use it to offend someone, knowing it’s secondary meaning is our genitalia, then this is anti feminist?

We know it has two meanings. Surely that’s the point of the thread.

Why as women Would we ever just accept that but also propagate its double use? Why would any feminist accept that?

We know it has two meanings. Surely that’s the point of the thread.

As have many other words. Do you never use the word 'hysterical' because one of it's meanings was once derogatory of women?

Hysterical is not perceived by society as one of the most offensive words in the English language. Neither is twat or pussy.

The argument is not that any word derogatory to woman should not be used, although sure it could be extended to that, but that one of the most offensive profanities there is, Cunt, is also a crude term for female genitalia.

Fascicle-but I do think we live in a misogynist society!

And one of the things that illustrates that for me is that the words for men's genitals are generally milder, vaguely humorous and potentially affectionate, while the words for women's aren't-except in a few pockets of the country.

Hysterical is not perceived by society as one of the most offensive words in the English language.

No, but it was used far more to demean women, in some of the very worst ways historically. Where as cunt was originally used as medical slang for genitalia and then developed into a second, separate meaning of 'awful person'.

As with 'hysterical', there may be a link between the word in both its original and later forms, but the current separate meanings are not related. The offensiveness of the current secondary meaning of cunt doesn't mean 'women's genitalia', even if it possibly shares a (very old) root word. So, if a word has a meaning that is not derogatory, demeaning or generally a direct attack on women, even if it's offensive there, there's no case for the word not to be used based on the argument that it's other meaning has historically been female based (in either medical or derogatory speech).

Cunt absolutely does woman’s genitals. Look it up in the dictionary. If it didn’t this thread would not exist.

It’s primary meaning is woman’s genitals, it’s secondary meaning is an unpleasant person. This cannot be disputed. Those are it’s only two definitions in today’s English language.

I only use it to say an unpleasant person

Not very often

I dont think its particularly unfeminist thing to say so i will probably continue doing it

But not very often

Bluntness100 are you being deliberately obtuse??!! I have never once denied that cunt doesn't mean genitalia, as hysterical' first meaning is still 'a person thought to be behaving extremely irrationally'. Both words have now, here, in this day, on this planet, a different meaning that in context, are not related to the formative meaning.

When a person calls another a 'cunt' as a swear, they do not mean female genitalia. Just as if I called a woman who told a funny joke 'hysterical' I wouldn't mean they needed some barbaric mental health therapy. How clearly do you need that spelt out to you?