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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

30 ish teenagers aged 16 on a coach for 7 hours ,with the only adult being the coach driver

94 replies

Laceup · 27/10/2017 23:08

Am I being unreasonable to think having paid £600 (plus £600 for equipment )for duke of Edinburgh gold,through the school.there would be an adult apart from the driver on the coach..both ways no other adult....dont the school have a duty of care? What if a fight had broken out? 16 yr old boys do tend to scrap...or a crash? Or the driver taken ill...I don't know,am I just being a bit precious???..

OP posts:
EvilRinguBitch · 28/10/2017 09:36

Just been recruiting graduates with firsts from (mostly) top universities for a very well paid graduate job. Only one out of twenty applicants had gold DofE and I cannot for the life of me remember which one that was.

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2017 09:37

It's outrageous that school's still peddle this rubbish. It's obvious when you think about it that universities can't possibly take account of things that cost £1200 in their admissions decisions. And that is pretty stNdard for a DofE Gold. I think it's about time the DofE organization had a look at this too.

C8H10N4O2 · 28/10/2017 09:43

but the school had told him top universities look for it,and he stands a better chance of getting a good job,getting on the degree

That is an outrageous claim for them to make. Its a 'nice to have' extra curricular and he will derive various personal benefits working through the scheme.
However its very, very wrong of the school if they were pressuring parents to come up with those sums of money on the basis it will help with university places.

Original poster
Laceup · 28/10/2017 09:53

I was at the meeting ,where we were top top unis look for it and he stands a much better chance of getting a good job with it....we had the school phoning us for the money as we hadn't paid one of the instalments as we were waiting for pay day ,..emails saying it had to be paid before the expedition....in hindsight we should of said,I'm sorry son we haven't got the money....all the kit is currently on a credit card to tackle after Christmas....no one forced us,we could of said no..but when faced with ...this is what employers/ unis are looking for ,well we found the money..as I said he really enjoyed it ...so that's good

OP posts:
Scabbersley · 28/10/2017 09:57

Listen, you've invested in him, he'll probably really enjoy it. I hope he has a great time. It won't be a waste of money if he gets something out of it.

And so speaks the parent whose dd failed to complete her bronze Hmm

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2017 09:58

That's awful laceup! Sad

SandyDenny · 28/10/2017 10:11

I object quite strongly to the view that D of E should give you an advantage in uni applications. It's vastly unfair on those who either can't afford it or whose schools don't offer it or don't even know it exists.

I hope uni admissions staff don't go along with this, it's by no way a level playing field

Original poster
Laceup · 28/10/2017 10:15

Now I sound like I'm running d of e down...I'm really really not,he had a great time,he loved it,he wanted to do it,he's no idea we couldn't afford it..we are just trying to put the kids first..as per...I only started the thread to see if I was being a bit daft expecting a teacher on board.,but it did make me think that the money put the experience out of reach of a lot of people,us included if we hadn't had access to a credit card...perhaps d of e could look at purchasing the clothes / kit ,and people could hire them at a small fee...

OP posts:
ineedaholidaynow · 28/10/2017 10:19

For those of you saying employers don't look at this sort of thing, I remember my MIL telling me that when my BIL applied for a job with the police they commented favourably on the fact that he had done DofE and been in the Boys Brigade. They said it showed a level of commitment they were looking for. And this was after he had been in other employment for 10 years.

amicissimma · 28/10/2017 10:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2017 10:29

"It's a pity that people are arguing about whether or not DofE is good for university entrance"

There is no argument. It isn't.

And it's being discussed because the OP stretched herself financially because her son's school lied to her. And frankly, there is something pretty bizarre about a 16 year old young off to learn to be self reliant at a cost of £1200 to his parents!

C8H10N4O2 · 28/10/2017 10:31

It's a pity that people are arguing about whether or not DofE is good for university entrance or job applications.

The issue is that the school are pressuring parents to find money they can't easily afford on the basis of help with university entrance.

I think the DoE is great. A relative of mine was involved in running it centrally for many years and I know the benefits it brings. However it is not the only way to show commitment and development outside of school - there are equally good and much cheaper options than £1200 outward bound courses.

applicants who spend their spare time lounging on the sofa with an electronic device

Yes because lets throw in some irrelevant gamer-bashing.

hippyhippyshake · 28/10/2017 10:35

Sandy, there's all sorts of things that give you extra points towards uni applications and I think with the right mindset, DofE is a good thing to have. It is open to all, even if schools don't do it, other organisations do. Apart from registering and some basic kit items, the only cost for the expedition should be campsite fees. Maybe the 'qualification' is losing its way, becoming too easy. My eldest dd learnt loads. I like the volunteering aspect myself, all my dds still volunteer at the places they did for their silvers over 5 years ago.

As for £600 on kit! What was that on? Ok, boots are expensive but well under £100 and can last a long time. The trangia, tent, utensils etc should be shared or maybe provided by the organiser for a small fee. Food is dried pasta, dried pasta and biscuits. I'm actually appalled at the cost and the DofE should send guidelines to all their organisers about accessibility.

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2017 10:37

"Sandy, there's all sorts of things that give you extra points towards uni applications and I think with the right mindset, DofE is a good thing to have"

It might be a good thing to have. But not for university entrance.

Original poster
Laceup · 28/10/2017 10:40

Oh my ...the kit list was an a4 sheet of paper normal writing ,list on both sides..I will copy it on here when I can

OP posts:
Original poster
Laceup · 28/10/2017 10:41

I have the receipt for £600 from millets..not including the Tesco receipt for food ..a 6 foot rugby playing teen is not going to manage on a few bits of dried fruit for a week

OP posts:
scrabble1 · 28/10/2017 10:43

There should be another adult

hippyhippyshake · 28/10/2017 10:43

You could say that about any extra points Bertrand, why should grade 8 piano give you an advantage, especially if you are applying to study economics?

BertrandRussell · 28/10/2017 10:44

"why should grade 8 piano give you an advantage, especially if you are applying to study economics?"

It doesn't.

capercaillie · 28/10/2017 10:48

This isn't about the fact they're doing a gold DofE expedition but the fact the school still has a duty of care if they are taking these students away. What if the coach broke down or one of the students was taken ill on journey? I would say something to the school on this.

hippyhippyshake · 28/10/2017 10:49

Maybe I'm out of date then. Certainly a few years ago, universities either wanted pure A-level results or an accumulation of points, something like 350. If the points system is now defunct, then I agree, no extra-curricular stuff matters except as a by-line in the personal statement.

capercaillie · 28/10/2017 10:50

Also appalled by the cost. The Gold trips I run cost £170 for the whole thing. They have to buy food on top of that. We lend them tents, stoves etc. The school needs to look at the provider it's using.

SandyDenny · 28/10/2017 10:53

Hippyhippyshake - I'm not against D of E as such. How does a uni admissions tutor know what mindset you had when you did it?

Theoretically it may be open to all but there's no way that it's easily accessible to teens who have no support at home, no money to do it, no way to find a local group

I know some scout groups do it but those from disadvantaged backgrounds aren't necessarily going to in a position to access and commit to a long stint of scouting.

On that point though I DO think a student from that background should be given extra credit if they gain D of E.

iBiscuit · 28/10/2017 10:58

I interview applicants for an excellent apprenticeship scheme. Where DoE , cadets etc really helps is in giving kids experiences that they can refer to when asked competency-based questions ("tell me about a time when you've had to work together with others .." etc).

£1200 is ridiculous though, and I'm Hmm at the idea of going straight to Gold.

Orangeplastic · 28/10/2017 10:59

but the school had told him top universities look for it Cambridge have made it very clear that they don't give a damn about the DOE - it's a waste of space on your personal statement! They are after super curricular activities not extra curricular - grade 8 in music doesn't impress them either.