Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not knowing maths is not a badge of honour, is it?

192 replies

Fidoandacupoftea · 24/10/2017 21:24

Over the years, some of my DDs classmates mums have mentioned that maths is beyond them, in a sort of 'boasting' manner, and the kids always get help from dads. I am not talking about dyspraxia or expect anyone to feel embarrassed about it. But surely it shouldn't be something to be proud of (not the right word I know), if we want to set examples for our DDs

OP posts:
Etymology23 · 24/10/2017 22:43

dora I work in a maths based environment and deal with algebraic equations and graphs etc as part of my job.

I also live my life at home. I use ratios when I bake. I use compound interest to work out the expected returns on my pensions and work out how much I need to be paying in. I use % to work out the net impact of a variety of pre-tax benefits. I use more compound interest to work out how much money overpaying my mortgage saves. I use area of a circle to work out how much bigger an area one diameter pizza has than another. I use area calculations combined with ratios to work out the volume of weedkiller I need for the garden. I use probability to assess the likelihood of winning in a card game and therefore what I should be betting. I use graphs and an understanding of statistics if I want to I assess the information presented in the news. I know my dad has needed trig when bracing a roof in the past and used calculus to design a lovely curved gate.

None of these are insanely complicated bits of maths but they are jolly useful. Trig and calculus are useful less frequently but they also (as does much of maths) enable a greater understanding of the world around you as it improves your ability to access science, and this is very valuable.

mommybunny · 24/10/2017 22:46

Beautiful post Etymology.

Hoardinghobbit · 24/10/2017 22:47

The very fact that folk on this thread are using their individual perceptions and anecdotes as proof of a general point or to argue with systematic research is evidence enough that we need better levels of mathematical literacy.
Anyway, can't wait to go to work tomorrow and put to use my knowledge of ox-bow lakes, restoration comedy and batik.

BigGlasses · 24/10/2017 22:47

I have ranted to DH many times about this. It's so weird, why do people, most often females, but young males do it to, think it is cool to be bad at maths?! I know not everyone likes or is good at it, but to actively boast about it just seems weird. TV presenters are especially prone to it.

honeysucklejasmine · 24/10/2017 22:49

After one parents evening, a maths teacher approached me, a science teacher.

"Do you know, 85% of parents I met tonight seem to believe inability to succeed in maths is genetic?"

Made me laugh. How depressing.

wrenika · 24/10/2017 22:50

There's nothing wrong with being bad at maths...but I wish people didn't try to make it sound - I don't know - cool (?) - not to know maths.
I am so fed up of seeing people going on and on about how you will never use trigonometry when you leave school. It's a fundamental, amazingly useful skill to have in your arsenal. If you're doing some DIY, being able to calculate lengths and angles is handy. I'm an engineer so I use maths a lot at work, but honestly, not hard maths mostly. The only times I use more complex maths is when we get into seismic analysis or something like that, but simple 'scottish higher level' maths is what I use most. I never even did advanced higher maths in school - sorry, don't know what old scottish school levels equate two now...

cakeandcustard · 24/10/2017 22:51

Studying maths encourages logical thought and problem solving. You don't need to be solving quadratic equations to be exercising the skills picked up in maths lessons.

I've been told in the past that you can get by in life not being able to read well but if you're innumerate you have a much harder time in terms of managing money and not being conned at every turn.

Women tend to not have a problem admitting to being bad at maths as its not seen as a 'female subject', its socially acceptable. This is a widely identified reason that girls are less likely to study higher level maths.

southeastdweller · 24/10/2017 22:51

If you don't understand probabilities, how can you know whether doing the lottery is worthwhile, or taking out contents insurance, or betting on the grand national, or whether to go to London by train?

Maths doesn't come into any of that, though. Surely it's just common sense?

DadDadDad · 24/10/2017 22:56

...contents insurance...

Maths doesn't come into any of that, though. Surely it's just common sense? Pricing actuaries, I almost feel sorry for you. Grin

Doramaybe · 24/10/2017 22:57

I still say that the majority of students will never need trigonometry or Pythagorus or whatever unless they leave to work in that environment.

I am not making any criticisms of maths teachers, fair dues to them, like any other part of said curriculum it has to be taught.

But the basics seem fine to me, cannot be faulted.

Same goes for the rest of the subjects in the Curriculum. However, I think people will read, look at a map, do geography read about history etc.

For lots of people anything other than maths is accessible.

Sorry to maths teachers, no offence intended, but it is tough for many with no onward reward apart from the few who enter a maths environment.

LondonGirl83 · 24/10/2017 22:59

I know exactly what you mean OP.

No one says, 'I just don't get reading!'

Everyone needs math and it should be something everyone treats as an important skill to have a solid grasp of. Being cavalier sets a terrible example.

Not 'getting' math shouldn't be treated like its not a big deal. The UK has the worst math skills in the entire developed world and it causes lots problems...

CloudNinetyNine · 24/10/2017 22:59

I've been in the playground and heard this type of comment a fair few times. Mums struggling helping with Year 2 / Year 3 maths homework! "I'm hopeless with maths, hahaha".
They are basically saying "I have the maths ability of a 6 year old, hahaha".

StatisticallyChallenged · 24/10/2017 23:01

Pricing actuaries, I almost feel sorry for you GrinGrin

DadDadDad · 24/10/2017 23:02

The very fact that folk on this thread are using their individual perceptions and anecdotes as proof of a general point or to argue with systematic research is evidence enough that we need better levels of mathematical literacy.

Actually, Hoarding, when someone make a generalisation on this thread that we don't need maths in every day life, then it only requires a single counter-example to disprove that statement, so anecdote has a role. Grin

But, more seriously, I agree with you that statistics is a powerful tool that overcomes the bias etc that comes from anecdotal experience. (Someone is going to come along with that "damned lies" quote soon, which shows a complete lack of understanding of what statistics used properly can achieve).

DadDadDad · 24/10/2017 23:03

Statistically - that joke was just for you. Grin

OohMavis · 24/10/2017 23:05

I have discalculia. I'm very open about it and I have nothing to be ashamed of.

My children do fine with maths, they aren't being damaged by my refusal to hide it away. I'm just not the go-to parent when it comes to maths homework.

StatisticallyChallenged · 24/10/2017 23:07

And for most people it takes a level of experience of calculating and applying statistics and mathematical logic/reasoning before they're able to intuitively realise that information being given to them is incorrect; the number of times I see/read news stories with stats which are blatantly misrepresented or just plain wrong is shocking.

StatisticallyChallenged · 24/10/2017 23:08

DadDadDad I feel sorry for pricing actuaries too!

StealthPolarBear · 24/10/2017 23:10

Completely agree op and I also find the "once you can add up what more do you need to know?" attitudes baffling too. There are many jobs which require varying levels of maths and surely women should be getting them at about the same rate as men? It shouldn't all be about baking cakes and sewing hems.
That said I still can't help the dc with their homework a lot of. The time. I can answer the questions but don't know how they're taught and I'm not good at explaining concepts in the way their teachers are.

Doramaybe · 24/10/2017 23:13

Right so can someone tell me how an eighteen year old after A level maths will use that in day to day life? Unless they have an internship with an actuary.

Just wondered how trig and algebra will really help most people.

It really doesn't feature in day to day life does it apart from on an academic or further education level really.

5foot5 · 24/10/2017 23:19

*Who really needs to know algebra or Pythagorus? Where will that help in daily life really.

I was crap at maths but passed.

NEVER NEEDED anything other than adding, subtracting and multiplication*

But maybe if you were comfortable with other maths skills you would have found those of use in every day life too.

I admit that I have a job where mathematical skills are pretty key.

However, even outside of a professional life I do use those skills.
A PP mentioned cooking - absolutely!

Simple equations often used when I am working out a time plan to make sure all the components of a meal are ready at the right time.

Ratios when I am scaling a recipe up or down.

Even geometry. I have used the formula for finding the area of a circle when working out how many 7 inch pizzas I would get from the dough when the recipe expected you to be making 10 inch.

In fact calculating volumes generally when using different sizes of cake tins.

Pythagoras theorem useful in many crafts.

In fact I remember as a young teen helping my Dad build a hen house. Dad left school at 14 in the 1930s so didn't really have much secondary education and certainly no formal qualifications but he did do an apprenticeship and became a very skilled builder. Anyway he explained to me it was very important that the corners were "square", i.e. right angles, and that you could check this by measuring 3 feet down one side and making a mark, 4 feet down the other - well you get the idea. Anyway I recognised it as Pythagoras of course and told Dad I had done it at school. He was very interested. He hadn't heard of Pythagoras theorem but had been using it regularly for the last 40 years!

Hoardinghobbit · 24/10/2017 23:20

DadDadDad I know what you mean - but I'm afraid we're in post-truth times, everyone can have their own proofs! What's also depressing about this thread is that people are defensively insisting that the only alternative to pride is shame - logical thinking also protects against false dichotomies.

DadDadDad · 24/10/2017 23:21

Dora - you seem to keep ignoring the answers that have already been given:

  1. That kind of knowledge will be useful in a broad range of science, engineering, finance roles, and may even be useful in other roles that involve working with data, looking for patterns, designing systems, ...
  1. For everybody, it's part of a broad-based curriculum that develops our ability to think and appreciate different ways of understanding the world and human society, even if it is not explicitly referred to in our daily lives (along with Shakespeare, 20th century politics, drawing someone's portrait with charcoal...).
Hoardinghobbit · 24/10/2017 23:22

Dora let us know when you have enough examples.

StatisticallyChallenged · 24/10/2017 23:25

Plenty of trades will use more advanced maths than addition, subtraction and multiplication; calculating areas, volumes, angles, materials required etc. For example, there are rules about how steep a flight of stairs is allowed to be - defined by the angle. Plenty of builders would need to deal with that. Electricians (and their apprentices) will use more complex maths too. Even simpler things like carpet fitting will require a fair amount of geometry

Should that 18 year old start paying in to their company pension now? What difference will starting now vs in 10 years make? how will that money grow? More than basic maths

Swipe left for the next trending thread