To expect a baby change in a restaurant / foodie pub...?

[SpottyGecko]

Went out for lunch today to a place we'd never been to before. An old pub, where ladies / gents and I assume disabled toilets were spread out.

Between courses I had to change dd. Went into ladies, no baby change. So asked (admittedly grumpy) waitress perfectly pleasantly where the baby change was. She looked at me strangely and snapped "we don't have one". And just stared at me. I answered ok, but slowly as was weighing up in my head where I could change dd thinking it might have to be the car boot even though it was raining heavily, and she just carried on watching me until I said ok again and walked away. She made no attempt to offer a solution / apology.

This was a pub that had high chairs and an extensive child's menu with colouring paper and pencils, so reasonably child friendly.

Ended up changing dd on a cold and cramped toilet floor, where people literally had to step over us. There was room on a wall for a changer.

AIBU to expect a simple baby change pull down table thing in 2017? I've been to a lot of pubs, restaurants, cafes etc both rural / remote and urban and never come across this before. Or am I just being a bit entitled? Genuinely interested and open to people telling me I'm expecting too much.

I would have asked to use their staff area.
Failing that, I'd have been tempted to change them on the dining table or bar just to make a point.
I don't mind non child friendly places to have facilities for babies - I'm not one of those parent who thinks it is acceptable to take toddlers to posh adult restaurants at 9 pm but I do expect establidhments which market thrmselves as family friendly to actually be so. It's false advertising otherwise. So I'd have kicked off.

tabby I didn't say the corridor was thin....

I wonder if this is a regional thing maybe? I definitely am not surprised when baby change facilities are absent (unless we're at soft play or something). I might ask, but if there isn't one, I don't normally think that's strange tbh. I've used loo floors a few times. Not great, but fine on the odd occasion.

I just wouldn't be expecting everyone to help me or solve the problem for me. If I couldn't find a baby change, I would have just solved it myself by changing the baby on the floor. I'm not sure I would "never go there again" either. It would depend on how much I liked the food!!! I think times have changed and mums are more used to there being facilities especially for them. This wasn't always the case a few years ago and whether rightly or wrongly, people tended to accept it and make do.

Name and shame

I'm tempted to write a trip advisor review, which I don't normally do.
Food was nice enough. Dessert was fantastic.
Service was slooooow. Booked for 1230. Seated 1230. Food order taken at 110 and arrived at 130.
Staff were detached / brusque. Not made to feel welcome I have to say. Not expecting flags and bunting by any stretch, but a smile off the waitress / landlady / manager person would have been nice
£60 bill. No starters, no alcohol, so not cheap.

I guess the lack of changing facilities was the straw that broke the camels back for me

I normally tip but didn't today. Was a 40 min drive away (beautiful part of the world) so definitely won't be returning as plenty of other pubs in vicinity.

I agree with you but if you think that pub is bad don’t go to California - no baby changing facilities anywhere - not even in the bloody airport in San Diego!? I had to change DS in his pram. And it’s ridiculous given there’s space to put up a folding change table in pretty much every toilet. I don’t understand what Californian parents do.

YANBU.

Problem with old pubs is that even if there is room there's no guarantee the building is suitable to install a baby changing table. They're heavy and often the walls can't take the weight or it will destroy period features like tiles. This is particularly true of ladies lavatories which usually weren't included in the original design and are often chucked up, prefab or cobbled together jobs (going back to the times when ladies didn't really use pubs and were discouraged. Also most pubs aren't making much money these days so adding a child's menu and some colouring pencils is doable but a big job like installing a changing table for a market they might not get that much business from not really a sensible/viable decision.

I change in the pram in disabled and it seriously gets on my tits.
After c section husband changed son a lot when out but nowhere had baby change in men's loo.
Fucking lazy and sexist of these places.
Don't know why I bother

My mum would say you don’t know you’re born. I could change your nappy with you on my knee & it was a terry towelling square not one of those disposables. I did once hand her DD1 when we were somewhere without a changing area & say “over to you Granny this is your chance to show me how it’s done.” & DD1 who alternated between yoga, ballet & WWF wrestling during changes lay on granny’s knee like an angel[confused

I swore before I had my baby I’d never feed her in a loo or change her on a toilet. Sadly she’s not yet 3 months old and I’ve had to do both more than once. It’s absolutely amazing to me that the facilities aren’t there in 2017, especially in pubs with children’s menues. In fairness, one time I assumed there wasn’t and was pretty cross but when I contacted them about it later they explained they kept it behind the bar, my bad. So you did the right thing asking. You aren’t being unreasonable at all, this pub clearly wants family trade but can’t be arsed to actually provide the facilities for it. And from here on in I really do swear I’m never doing it in a toilet again!!

This is why I learned to change baby on my lap. Tricky to do it sat on a seat/ loo occasionally but nicer than a toilet floor

I’m torn. My parents used to run a pub for close to 30 years. There wasn’t a separate disabled toilet and certainly no baby change facilities! It was brewery owned and basically the brewery wouldn’t pay for ANYTHING that wasn’t legally required (and even then it was fought for!)

Like many older pubs, the toilets were tiny and just nowhere to safely put a changing table (not even a pull down one in the ladies and the men’s was disgusting most of the time with a hard, cold tiled floor). However there was space on the side next to the sink where you could put your own changing mat! But also if someone asked about changing their baby somewhere, they would be shown to somewhere there could at least have a bit of space!

So from the point of view that the landlord and landlady may not own the pub and therefore not the ones to pay for anything like that I would say it is a little entitled to expect it.

However as a parent I found it frustrating that my parents couldn’t do anything about it - even when they had grandkids! And we are a few years further on so maybe, in 2017, I should expect better!

I do think you should remember pubs are designed for adults. Many will offer a children’s menu and even have high chairs, simply because people will bring their kids in for food. Generally speaking, the children’s menu is normally aimed at kids old enough not to need nappy changes and on the whole it is normally only older kids coming into the pub. When I think back to how many babies were in the pub over the years, it certainly wasn’t many! Not in any pub I have been to.

If it was a chain type premise then yes it’s fair to expect facilites, but if I am reading it right this sounds more like an independent, small business and it is not uncommon for these premises to not have facilities. A variety of reasons, size, practicality, cost.
On the occasions I’ve visited places without I’ve used my own changing mat/bag and found a discreet and quiet area to change, not ideal, but I’d rather keep a small local business going in an economic climate that is tough enough for small businesses.

YANBU. I don't think it's too much to ask but I can see why people don't necessarily think It's worthwhile. I think until you have children you don't realise how helpful all of those conveniences are!
It's frustrating when there are no baby change facilities. Usually it's places you absolutely don't want to have to change them on the floor. I can recall doing that lots of times with my dd though.

A very family orientated pub locally has a drop down change where no other place would justbto squeeze one in! It drops down over 1 of the 2 sinks, if the baby is heavy it turns the tap on with the weight of it! Handy as there definitely isn't space for a floor change but with the table others can still use the loos.

As for feeding in the loo secretteach just don't. A discreet public feed is a better option.

Secret - there is never ever any need to breast feed in the loos

It is a smallish chain of c10 pubs

Admittedly it has been more than 10 years since I had to worry about changing my bubs out n about, however there is 1 particular pub/restaurant we liked to go to previous to dd being birn again it seemed child friendly, colouring sheets, highchairs, kids menu and a babyfood warmer etc but no change facilities for baby, i found myself taking dd out to the car and changing her on the backseat, bagging up wet nappy into the boot and taken home to be disposed of.
I was stunned on returning about 2/3 months(even tho i had no use for it for my kids, I have neices and nephews ages 3 and under) ago to realise it hadnt changed even with the addition of an enclosed lids play area surrounded by tables so as to make a nice dining exp for families.

You are not being unreasonable and certainly not expecting too much at all, I think most places would be able to fit a fold down changer, I reckon they cant be too expensive for an eatery. X

I wouldn't necessarily expect a pub to have baby change facilities, but if it was one that marketed itself as family friendly (e.g. with high chairs and crayons), then I think I would. Bit of a mixed message to have one without the other!

Haven't you got knees?
A plastic pull down table is hardly an essential in life.

the ladies was along a wide carpeted corridor. I could have changed my baby there rather than on a hard and cold toilet floor.

Why didn’t you then?

I went to loads of places that didn't have baby changing facilities.

I'm not sure why it would be the waitresses responsibility to suggest an alternative you're the parent.

I didn't ever use the baby changing facilities provided; I always used the mat in my changing bag or my lap. Largely because I've seen how disgusting other people can be and wasn't prepared to lie my baby anywhere that other people's shitty/pissy babies had been.

So it's a bit of a non problem anyway as far as I can see.

secretteach why have you had to feed her in the toilets, more than once, within 3 months?

Mine are 18 and 11. I fed them both for 18 months each and never once fed them in a toilet. Or was required to move. Or felt the need/pressure to move.

Just feed them where you are. Don't ever go to the loos to feed them!

It’s a pub, not a cafe. I know people do go there with babies and children, but it isn’t a child-oriented place, IYSWIM. If there isn’t a baby-changing station, use the floor with your mat (there’s always plenty of floor - surely you can find a space somewhere), your lap, or the back of the car. When my kids were little - only 15 years or so ago - baby change stations weren’t as common where I live. It worked out fine

Loads of pubs with no baby change round here. Lots of old buildings have no disabled access or loo and It shouldnt just go in the ladies. I've never found it a problem and as you said car boot is ideal if there's nowhere else.