Universal Credit won't be paid in months with 5 weeks. (WTF?) AIBU to think no one realises

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

If you get paid weekly, and there are 5 weeks in a month, in those months your pay will likely go over the Universal Credit limit and your UC will be stopped. You will have to go without that month and apply again.

WTF are they thinking?

Have they never heard of averages FFS? (That's how Tax Credits works). This is going to screw over so many people. It's ludricous.

The people claiming UC aren't any richer that month, they get the same amount of money as if it was paid in 12 monthly chunks.

This will happen to thousands of people every time there's a month with 5 weeks. (I guess they mean 5 Mondays?)

This is farcical.

There's 5 weeks in January, so if you get paid weekly that's you fucked for February.

April, July, October and December also have 5 Mondays.

This is utterly farcical and just plain callous.

I've been following a lot of the reports on UC but this aspect hadn't been pointed out before - thanks OP for bringing attention to it. I've been on income support and tax credit for years and I've been anxiously reading up on UC since the long threads about it on here years ago. As it turns out, I recently remarried and DH's salary now takes us above any benefit thresholds, so I won't be having to deal with UC after all (fingers crossed my relationship doesn't break down again). In my area, this is the only way many people will have any chance of coming out of the benefit system - zero hours contracts and the culture of low wages, as well as recruitment practices which don't allow for gaps in employment means that most won't be able to make work pay without relying on top-ups. Obviously I didn't marry DH just to stop being on benefits, we have a great relationship, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more women making different choices in their relationships with the new UC regime in mind.

Also, this table was published by my local authority but is useful for everyone wherever they are in the country. It highlights which changes of circ trigger a transfer to UC and which don't change of circ table @TheSassyVampireAIBUToLoveBlood a small income increase shouldn't trigger a transfer to UC anyway as it wouldn't trigger a new legacy benefit claim so I wouldn't worry too much. Still best to get change of circ in as quickly as possible regardless.

@WHATISTHISNIGHTMARE yes, your divorce will trigger a claim for UC as a single person. Do you have any other income? It's worth popping your details into entitled to benefits calculator just to see what you'll get under UC.

Are they basically trying to "encourage" people into permanent jobs ?

Because if that's the case they should be running an economy which provides them instead of making everything about the survival of the Tory party.

So many people are forced to work for agencies.

Appalling.

I didn't know about this aspect of UC and I suspect not many people do. The whole thing needs to be re-thought and the roll out needs to be stopped. Are there any petitions out there?

Petition created here, sign and share -
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/203492/sponsors/new?token=pw5LUaDlTegKklrIvbUi

Thanks @unweavedrainbow that's good to know

@Queenofwands also intelligent (2 degrees) but clearly I am a "problem" for this government because being a heterosexual women whose exDP buggered off, leaving me with a young DD to care for, meaning I have had to make a choice between my work and life balance (& I work as much as I can whilst trying to juggle everything), clearly means I deserve to be "punished" for my feckless choices. It really does beggar belief doesn't it?

Not read whole thread yet, but the whole idea behind the 6 week wait is so wrong. My ex employer (very large organisation) paid at the end of the month you started. So if you started work on June 12th you would get a paycheque on June 30th. They also allowed employees to have one off advances. Many companies and public sector employers do the same.
I didn't know about the 5 week month thing. The whole thing is a farce and will be impossible to implement.
Millions of people on low wages, with high housing costs will be affected. Particularly single mothers (what a shocker the Tories go after us again ).
I will be lobbying my (useless Tory boy) MP .

I'm terrified when it comes in in my area. Dh is disabled I'm his full time carer and we have 3 children.

2 years ago we were both in work and didn't qualify for anything benefit wise. Now we have to rely on benefits which isn't much to go on anyway I can't save massive amounts coz we don't have it.
I'm lucky in some ways as I still have a tiny savings pot to replace washing machine etc but that wouldn't last us 6 weeks!
I fear we're going to left to rot by the government and I'm scared what it means for my children.

ManateeEquineOHara- done!

Thanks, petition now has the required 5 supporters to go live but needs to go through the 'checking' process which can take up to a week. Will resend the link as soon as it is live.

Agent I was actually just thinking that and coming to post about it! It's going to encourage so many people to move in with people they aren't ready to move in with just because they'll need the security two incomes will bring. As other PPs have already suggested, it will also force many to stay in bad relationships.

For those few posters who've said it will force people into work, you're missing the point. Many of the people who will be hit hard are in work. And in many places there aren't well paid jobs available and even where there are, good luck trying to get one if you only have GCSE level qualifications.

As a PP suggested, I am planning on just trying very hard not to change my circumstances anytime soon. However, where I work they've recently brought in a (currently voluntary) new contract which is shit. Our managers have been very upfront with us that it will not stay voluntary to switch, it's just a case of when it becomes compulsory. When it does, there is a chance we'll be offered redundancy. The new contract is awful (not just the terms of it but also the way it is worded, there's lots of ambiguous language in it) and I won't sign it unless forced to. If I am forced to I will be out of a job fairly quickly because it requires you to be completely flexible with only a 'reasonable' amount of notice (which is obviously completely subjective to the manager you have at the time) which I can't be as a single parent. I have worked for the company for almost 10 years but it's a minimum wage job so my redundancy (if it is offered) is unlikely to tide me over for more than a few months.

The current available jobs where I work? New shops (currently offering 5 hour contracts that will be topped up with overtime - not helpful for claiming benefits) or call centres (shift work that is also near impossible without very flexible childcare). As I've said, I am hoping that I can get different work once my degree is finished in may that will help me but it doesn't sit well with me that I know plenty of people who don't have the option of doing a degree who will be in the same position as me.

Yes, in a perfect world, companies would pay a wage high enough for people to live off and non resident parents would pay enough that single parents shouldn't rely on the state. But we don't live in a perfect world and that safety net is meant to be there to keep people out of abject poverty and all the changes have shown that it is no longer doing that. The people hit hardest by these changes are desperate and they have no other avenue to go down. It is not about just looking out for number one. As other PPs have said, we are meant to live in a fairly wealthy country. We should have enough to make sure that we are looking after the people who live here and I think it's really sad we seem to have a government who don't care about that.

I think one of the best parts of Brexit is that, regardless of which party was in power to handle it, the outcome is likely to be unpopular enough that I doubt the controlling party would be reelected. I highly doubt the tories will still be in power after the next election and I don't think that's a bad thing considering policies such as this one.

Manatee can you repost the link to show what the petition is for? Its just saying the name of the petitioner.

Have signed ... there was a petition link on prev page I think that has similar HMGov petition which is almost 9k strong. At 10k gov needs to respond. Can we all sign that one too please? Don't want the effect to get diluted. Hang on will see if I can copy the original link again....

Ok here it is....

petition.parliament.uk/petitions?q=Universal+credit&state=open

Sorry, that is because it is still at the 'supporter' stage. I think you can still sign now it has the required supporters to go live but it has not been checked yet so hasn't actually gone live.

The text in the petition is:

Amend Universal Credit so that weekly paid workers aren't unfairly disadvantaged

Universal Credit may be stopped for weekly paid workers in a 5 week month, and they will have to reapply. This discriminates against weekly paid workers. Those paid the same annual wage over 12 months will not have months without Universal Credit payment or the stress of reapplying 4 times a year.

For further details of this aspect of Universal Credit see condition 8 for weekly paid workers, and condition 7 for fortnightly paid workers. www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-different-earning-patterns-and-your-payments/universal-credit-different-earning-patterns-and-your-payments-payment-cycles#if-youre-paid-weekly

Signed the generic one too as UC has SO many elements wrong with it.
I hope by also being specific about those elements that the effect can be maximised.

It's a shocking system.

However how likely is it someone's extra 5 days of pay will be that great it'll push them over the cap to lose ALL UC payments for that month?

I stopped claiming HB when I was only entitled to a small amount for this reason. The system was the same. My 4 weekly payments were based on my monthly wage. It NEVER made sense and I wrote to my MP about it way back when. Unfortunately we are a conservative area and have been for decades.
It was the childcare that affected me in this instance. They wouldn't times weekly amount by 52 and divide by 12. They would claim OP when I only paid 3/4 weeks and then back pay me the extra next payment when I had a 5 week month.

I'm having sleepless nights over this as well.

Universal Credit scares the crap out of me.

I agree with parts of it in theory- getting paid monthly would certainly help me budget better for those monthly direct debits. However, if you don't have a lot to start with making your money last an entire month is very difficult.

My area is due to roll out next month for any changes of circumstances/new claims, so if my landlord decides not to renew my tenancy in December we will have to move, thus prompting a move to universal credit. My lucky next landlord will then have to deal with the fact that they will have no idea when they will get their rent as it will depend entirely upon how long a new claim makes.

Food banks are already stretched to the hills here and its really difficult to get a voucher- you have to prove you actually need one, and even then you are only allowed a certain amount. Lots of us don't have family to help in difficult times.

What makes me more angry is that lots still don't get it- they don't get that its only us 'unemployed and feckless' who will be affected. Eventually anyone claiming any kind of benefit will have to transfer over.

Does anyone know the percentage of the country as a whole that this is likely to affect?

I'm terrified but as a single parent with disabled children who can't work, this government has me by the balls.

What can we do? I've signed the petition on this thread.

I've read the thread and am sickened. I don't currently claim but am not kidding myself that it couldn't happen.

I want to help and to act but what can I do? Does anyone have a template for a letter to my MP?

I just look at this and think, do the government have a special consultant whom they consult on matters such as this, giving them the brief: We want a condition that penalises UC recipients for the way the calendar months are constructed and have been for many thousands of years, which will cause stress, confusion and no access to the money the person is actually due, and which will create a system where the most administrative burden possible is placed on the UC provider creating massive work for them and likely causing major backlogs which are quite unnecessary. I know says that specialist, let's not pay them in every month with 5 weeks!!! That's what we need.

This is about as stupid a situation as the Tax Credits asshats who insist on keep paying you the higher amount even when you've rung them and told them that you don't need it and your income has gone up, and thereby create a massive task of having to pull back that money, create repayment plans and chase and hassle people for 'overpayments' (as though the overpayment was their fault).

You couldn't make it up. Someone doing a BTEC in Administration could look at this and figure out it's utterly, utterly stupid. And they'd be right.

Yes SassyVampire - This is a feminist issue as more women will be unfairly affected as a group. I was in tears reading this thread. I know people will think that is dramatic but I have seen poverty close up and my heart breaks for the vulnerable and the children for whom this will obviously cause terrible misery. I am shocked that it's not a higher profile issue. Why is Corbyn not agitating more? I know that New Labour are the baddies now, but if David Milliband had stood instead of Ed with the backing of his party we would not have this government or Brexit. I do not believe any labour government would do this. I hated Cameron and thought May was more benign. As a Vicars daughter I thought she would have empathy having seen things through her Fathers job. More fool me - Never Trust a Tory.

@Ladycsparkles if you move house in the same local authority then it won't trigger a claim for UC. Transfer to UC is only triggered by changes of circ that would have triggered a new benefit claim in the old system, if that makes sense. Moving house in the same local authority would only have been an update to an old claim rather than a new claim in of itself so it doesn't count. Only if you move "out of area" (ie somewhere which runs a different HB system to the one you were claiming in before) will you be moved to HB. See this table here, which has been issued by my local authority but applies across the whole country. I do welfare advice and the system as whole does suck though.