HSBC - not being helpful!

[ruthieness]

Am I being unreasonable to ask HSBC to confirm over the phone that the exact HSBC bank details I have already been given for a limited company actually correspond to that companies HSBC bank account before my daughter makes a large payment?

The first line customer service person said it was not "allowed"
and refused to call supervisor

I insisted on speaking to the supervisor.

Back on hold

Supervisor comes and speaks to customer service person and again he refuses to help.

I say "If it is a fraud don't they want to help me?"

He say's "if it is a fraud that is up to me to check!"

I ask to be put through to fraud department - although I do not think it is a fraud!

Put on hold again for over 10 more minutes!

total call 28 minutes - line was cut off -
not sure them or me!
No call back!

Shall I complain?

No company will give you permission to contact their bank to confirm their bank details

ottolenghi for dinner!

well "same as" does not mean identical.
new stricter rules came in force in 2015
quite complicated

legally it means any two names that might be confused with each other

so if John Smith Ltd is already registered

then you cannot register John Smith and Co ltd

nor john smith ltd

nor John Smiths Ltd

If someone was paying me a lot of money I would want them to make sure they had the correct details
and If they did not know me I would not be surprized that they would want to check with my bank the account holders name.

I would not expect my bank to put them on hold when they phone up.
and then cut them off or fail to ring back!

Next year the banks are going to be giving out this information for ALL payments not just large payments and the question will arise as to whether people will be able to make dummy payments to see your bank sort codes and account or whether each individual payment will have to be preauthorised by the account holder as many of you seem to want,.

Whether you as an individual will be able to opt out of it is yet to be seen but no one in business will ant to look "shady"

those codes appear on you bank card and on payments you make and on your cheque book so hardly state secrets!

Wow.

Op, data protection IS in the public interest. Massively so.

Although you've done one good thing. You've met people that bank with HSBC know that their details won't be given out in a phone call.

The duty to protect against fraud includes the duty not to give out bank details. You may not remember, but Jeremy Clarkson was so confident that people wouldn't be able to get money out of his account that he printed his back details in the paper he was writing for.

He was proved wrong. Someone got (iirc) £100 out and have it to charity in order to prove him wrong.

Its up to the buyer to ensure they have the correct details. Can you imagine the amount of time that banks would have to spend dealing with people if they could phone the bank to confirm the details? That would be a service they would charge for (if they a) wanted to offer it and b) legally could).

well perhaps you have to be "batshit crazy" to change the world for the better, but the fact is this change is coming next year and I would like it now!

I am genuinely amazed so many people think banks have no duty to help prevent their customer bank accounts being involved in scams.

it restores my faith in the world that people do not think scams are a problem - is that because they only happen to "other people"

maybe only "batshit" people?

that is very interesting madforit

In fact the person signed Clarkson up for a £500 direct debit to Diabetes UK

but the banks guarantee that direct debits will be refunded if unauthorised
so Clarkson was not actually defrauded - nor was there a risk
they were always going to tell him -
some charities agree that no signature for a direct debit is required as they set them up over the phone
but i accept that a lot of people do not check all the items on their bank statement

Clarkson was probably quilted into making a donation to diabetes uk so a good outcome!

in my case HSBC Bank could have offered to phone their client to get permission? simples? and charged me - would have been happy to pay - they paid for half an hour of staff time!

My sympathies go to the poor person who had to deal with you

NB all you HSBC customers should be aware that your bank will give out all your bank information not just the account number but every detail of every transaction if it is in "the public interest"

You each agreed that in the small print!!

Also the chances of me guessing the exact sort code and account number for a company are infinitesimal - it really was a yes or no question.

HSBC thought what?
that I had made a guess of one in a million billion and got it right by chance?

(the sort code and account number are 14 digits!)

I am good but not that good!

Ps that change definitely is not coming but enjoy your fantasy world. Hope that HSBC colleague is enjoying their whiskey.

Use your common sense ffs.

Also please realise that HSBC didn't waste your time, your wasted your own and their time by calling up with such a ridiculous question.

www.paymentsuk.org.uk/policy/confirmation-payee

I think it is coming!

It is called

"COP"

confirmation of payee

and you will see online who you are paying before you press the pay button.

The banks want it themselves!

Whine about it when it exists then. Until it's an actual regulation (not just an idea), banks aren't going to breach DPA for you. Common sense.

No the change that is being announced does not confirm the persons bank details, but their name.

OP you've spent an huge amount of time reading T&C's and researching payments and companies house. What's your next project?

Public interest means they will give it to the tax authorities of different countries (fatca and common reporting standards) and other official bodies not just anyone that phones up and asks

In my law firm we are required to check payment details by a second method, so e.g. if they are emailed to you, you need to phone to check. This wouldn't stop money being sent to an entirely fraudulent entity but could prevent an intercept or spoofing fraud.

COP actually does confirm the persons bank details
it does not tell you them it - it "confirms" them
you have to put them in and it will tell you the name on the account

or it might just tell you that you have that the account name "wrong" so you decide what to do next.

what am I doing next - well today I am sending a gift to the daughter of a friend who is going shopping for her wedding dress - I have offered to pay for dresses for all 6 bridesmaids and the bride cried she was so pleased! There is always that little issue of who pays and who chooses so this solves that nicely!

Walk the dog

See what is cooking!

maybe knitting - Christmas stockings -
the pound shop has sparkly wool to die for!

have a lovely day everyone!!

Next I am

Article in Guardian today. Couple conned out of £120,000. Making transfer to solicitor. Requested bank details by phone, solicitor said they would email them across but solicitors email had been hacked and fraudulent email arrived with wrong bank details. Couple made the transfer. Lost their money. I know this is different to OP's case but ousting here so people understand how prevalent fraud is. According to article solicitor account hacking is very common. Lots of cases when people transferring money when buying a house.

HSBC Bank could have offered to phone their client to get permission? simples?

HSBC are not even able to confirm to you that any such relationship with ABC Builders exists.

It's the reason that if you get an outbound call you'll be asked security questions before they divulge the reason for the call - because doing so would pretty clearly indicate if you were an existing customer or not which they're not allowed to do.

So no, not simples at all.

somethingnewtoday
perhaps you would be so kind as to let me know the evidence for your statement?

surely YOU the customer get an inbound call? and they can ask you to call them back!

looking at that guardian case is interesting -
confidence in the security of the banking system is so important

Thank goodness those people were easily able to borrow another
£120,000 in the short time available to buy the property
or they would have lost their home and would have been sued for failing to complete the purchase and could have lost a lot more!

and all for the sake of a 5 minutes call!

people never think it will happen to them yes I was paranoid but got no help.

I've not long changed my username so don't mind outing myself temporarily before I change again - I work for them. That's how I know. Obviously your choice if you believe me.

I'm not sure what you mean by the inbound comment. Yes of course you can call HSBC back if you prefer.

I also have no ideawhat the call thing means either
Banks do make outbound calls to customers, and even then will not continue the callor even tell you what its about till you confirm your identify, data protection.

You still haven't told anyone what risk you was mitigating?

The COP thing brought about by GDPR has always been a thing. Experian has a product called bank wizard.

Which most financial services sign up for, it's an API system so when I say as a customer I am paying x person the system makes sure it's in an account that says that name.

I think you, despite your paranoia, don't really know how to protect yourself on line. Or really understand the data protection act, soon to become gdpr.