To be happy it will soon be illegal to smack children?

[speakout]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

Brilliant news.

StepAwayFromGoogle I completely agree but because the father was part of a certain religion it was okay! Fuck all my friend could do about it except withhold contact unless supervised.
Sadly if the little lad had been a girl the father wouldn't have wanted to know, fucker even tried to change his name to some bullshit religious one 😡 (had not been interested in her pregnancy one bit and when he realised she'd grown a backbone used an alias to evade the CSA as well)

manclife, of course preventing harm is a valid defence to assault. For instance, if you pushed someone to stop them being hit by a car it would technically be an assault but you would have a cast iron defence.

I was smacked as a child but I don't hold it against my parents. I do remember finding it traumatising at the time though. I will never ever smack my own children. I want them to feel safe and loved when they are with me.

Show me where in law it says that. It doesn't.

Forgot to say I will never forget the time when I was in town (I was only a teenager at the time) and I saw a woman with a little girl - she was yelling at her and smacking her. It looked like her spirit was broken or was awful

• it was awful

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

It's no different in England and Wales except it's still not deemed 'self-defence' there or in Scotland.

NZ is most certainly not a classless society. It's one of the more inegalitarian societies in the OECD. The reality is that a lot of Maori are dirt poor, under pressure, and that reflects itself in the crime stats in just the same way as if they were a class. Frankly, it's a fucking disgrace, a stain on the country's conscience, and virtue-signalling legislation like banning smacking names no difference.

Wow someone's feeling grouchy lol! It is a classless society in that, despite many attempts by British imports, we do not have an upper, middle or lower class. We were founded as an egalitarian society and all the talk of "middle" class is just colonial nostalgia.

Sure there is a big divide between rich and poor, and I'm SOOOO so happy that we've had a change of government, but that is different to a traditional class system.

Great news. Hope Scotland will be a pilot for the rest of the UK, and that the Greens will introduce a similar bill at Westminster soon.

Nonsense that it's unenforceable - and cultural differences won't come into it. Might not be your culture to wear a seatbelt, but it's still the law.

Manc:

Defences to assault:

Consent
Reasonable chastisement of a child
Self-defence, defence of property, prevention of crime

No. 3 will cover many instances of prevention of harm. In the scenario of pushing someone out of the way of a car, in the highly unlikely event of prosecution the defence would be a reasonable belief in implied consent. So far as the issue of picking up a child and carrying him out of a shop goes, that would be covered by consent, on the basis that the parent can consent on behalf of a child to use reasonable force for the benefit of the child, given that no-one would suggest that a parent should walk out of the shop and leave him there. And just in case some smartarse queries why the parent can't consent to the child being hit, consent isn't a valid defence to actual bodily harm in the absence of a good reason.

Can we not use 'smack' and replace it with 'hit'? It makes the arguments much clearer if you do that.

No3 is what it says it is. Defending from an attack not from doing something stupid. Implied consent for walking into danger I'll have but not for a tantrum at Tesco's. Oh, and of course you can consent to minor assault (boxing, spanking, piercing) so you 'smacking is different' argument is flawed straight off.

Good. About time too.
England next hopefully.

Cunning I so completely agree.
The phrase “smacking” diminishes what is a wholly violent and indefensible act.

Mind you, if I was hitting, slapping and punching anyone let alone a child, I’d want it playing down as well.

Ban smacking but allow circumcision? Hypocrisy of the highest order.

I note that no-one answered the post about punishment and consequences from the poster who talked about twelve year olds throwing stones. Maybe if those kids had been punished whilst younger they wouldn't be such obnoxious kids and would grow up better adjusted?

There is violent assault on kids. This is covered under existing law. It is already illegal. Maybe enforcing that law first properly might be better than continuing to ban stuff. Frankly I think you shouldn't smack children but picking on minor issues when big glaring ones still exist just shows how ineffective the police and state are.

I don't know. I'm against smacking, but I've had two children who were 'smackers' and it wasnt something they learned at home, it was an outward expression of inner distress.

I don't know though - we are ultimately just mammals like any other and it's pretty normal to see a cat or a chimp give their offspring a little cuff when they're playing up. Not to hurt them, but just as a sensory, non verbal version of 'stop arsing around'. The law as it stands allows parents to do this. As my experience has taught me it's not as simple as 'hitting makes children hit',

Scenario (real) - parent about to leave home in car, child age 12 ( who is in a strop) doesn't want to stay home with parent 2, wants to go with parent 1 which isn't an option. Child gets in car on drive. Parent 1 calmly explains why child can't come, ask them to get out of car. They won't. Repeat 20 - 30 times. Next follows 20 minutes of escalating naughtiness and disobedience. All usual reasonable efforts fail. Eventually as final straw parent has to physically drag child out of car. Child is strong. They don't want to get out. Its physical getting them out. Is this 'assaulting' the child? What can parent do when they need to leave and all non physical options failed? Its not a smack but it hurts Childs arm.

Repeat 20 - 30 times.

You had already lost it by this point. In fact that whole scenario sounds toxic.

Very negative parenting.

I see winter has arrived....

Speak out, what would you have done ?

What londonista said.

For me the issue is very simple. There are no circumstances in which it is permissible to hit an adult because we don't like their behaviour. The same should be true in relation to a child. The fact that it currently isn't yet is an archaic abuse of power.

The equation of discipline with physical violence is a fallacy. It is entirely possible to be an authoritative, even an authoritarian parent without hitting.

Ban smacking but allow circumcision? Hypocrisy of the highest order

Two completely separate issues.

Maybe if those kids had been punished whilst younger they wouldn't be such obnoxious kids and would grow up better adjusted?

Is hitting your child really the only way to teach them?

I do agree that you hit kids you can expect them to replicate the behaviour, but it isn’t carved in stone.

My fantastic dad, who I love to bits, hit me and my brother in the name of discipline constantly when we were small.
We weren’t even that naughty, we used to get hit for doing kid things like getting crayon on the lino, or spilling our squash on the table.

He cannot talk about it now. He says the recollection of hitting such small children makes him feel physically ill.
He thought he was doing the right thing, he was 22 years old, it was the 70s. He was hit by his dad, and his dad was hit before him. I feel sorry for my dad, he is traumatised by it.

I’m proud that the cycle stops with me and my brother - neither of us hit children.

bigbadshewolf it's not the type of situation I get into. Children can be stubborn at times, but I would never resort to hitting a child to get my way or prove a point.
Having a close respectful relationship is key.
I don't hit , I don't shout, I don't punish.
I use positive parenting
Makes for a much easier life.

@Alicetherabbit quite agree!!! Mine the same ........ 😕