To be happy it will soon be illegal to smack children?

[speakout]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

Brilliant news.

Op you are allowing your emotions to get the better of you as you've missed the point. Support and help is what these kids needs with the family.

While smacking is legal they won't get this as it's just seen as normal family life. I'm sure parents won't be chucked in jail for ten years for a first offence, more likely to be sent on a parenting course.

To prosecute parents and put children into care where they are more likely to be abused

Hyperbole and unlikely. How many assault perpetrators go to jail?

I'm not condoning smacking

Actually, you are

but throwing the book at the parent won't help the child

And ignoring the violence against a child will?

The child could end up with mh issues and in out of prison for most of their life until they get their teeth kicked in.

Nice story Being hit by your parents isn't particularly good for your mental health either.

gentle tap

How I hate that word tap.

Trying to sugar coat assault.

I may give my OH a gentle tap if I want to draw his attention to something.

How exactly does a gentle tap have the desired disciplinary effect?
I can see a smack may bring about the desired pain and distress, but to call that a gentle tap is to acknowledge that you know hitting kids is wrong.

I asked DD if i ever smacked her. She said no.

Maybe she was scared that if she said yes, she would be hit again...?

Happyemoji I don't think it will change much apart from keeping it from others seeing it.

Until 1991 men were allowed to rape their wives in the UK.

By your reasoning there wasn't much point in changing that law either.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine yes,yes ofc. If you would’ve seen my previous posts you probably would’ve found a retort that actually makes sense.

(Replace the ridiculous word 'spank' with 'hit')

It kills me to think of children being hit. My niece gets it from sil and bil. It's horrendous. It's not hard but it gets mentioned in public, threatened in front of family. I find it horrendous as it brings back my own experiences from when I was a child. It didn't happen hard, but was public.

For those saying that taking the children away from the parents could end up with the children in care with mental health issues what about my mental health issues from being hit by my parents after they were allowed to do it? What about my recurring violent nightmares reliving it? What about not being able to have sex with my husband until we had been married as I couldn't be touched by anyone? There have been times I remembered being hit and then trying to take my own life. Hitting a child may not be painful physically but it's destroyed me mentally.

Sorry...i hate children being hit. I don't want them to end up like I am.

Shut up perfect speakout. Must be wonderful to be the perfect parent!

If you would’ve seen my previous posts

I did. The whole point of using a punishment is to scare your child into believing that of they do the wrong thing they will be punished.

Being scared that you may have your iPad removed is on a whole different level to be scared that your parent will hit you.

I saw a post here years ago that I remember, it was to someone trying to justify hitting their kid as 'a tap'- the aim of hitting your kid is to cause pain, a 'tap' would not hurt so it's a touch, it doesn't make sense. Just say you hit your kid because you can't parent.

'Never did me any harm'
Clearly it did, if you think that hitting is ok.

I have never ever hit my children. It has never even crossed my mind to do it no matter how badly they have behaved.

However I have witnessed a very good friend slap her young son’s leg after a sustained period when he was kicking and punching her. I was shocked and it made me feel very uncomfortable but I honestly don’t believe criminalising her act in that moment (what happens next? Does the child get taken into care?) would have been the right response.

Also, I have shouted and spoken sharply to my own children when I have been stressed or angry (never sworn or said anything very unpleasant- more shouty ‘I SAID GET YOUR SHOES ON!’ type stuff). I worry that words - especially swearing or hurtful language- are just as harmful as occasional physical chastisement.

I don’t know what the right answer is.

Must be wonderful to be the perfect parent!

I'm glad you agree that hitting your child is poor parenting.

Itsall it's not hyperbole my partner worked in a care home. The places that he picked children up from because they disappeared somewhere where they were being abused. There is only so much care workers can do its not an easy job. I could go on with the stories that he told me. The job knackered him you have to be a very understanding person to work in it. You can't show weakness they won't listen to you.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine actually it was not a punishment. It was cause she wouldn’t let go of my lip and it was fucking hurting. The smack was during not after,so she would let go.
The third time was for running into the road and I’ll put my hand up that was me just reacting in the moment and there probably are a dozen other ways of dealing with it. She never ran into the road again though.

As usual England is trailing behind, but we'll get there.

A gentle tap wouldn’t frighten a child into submission. A gentle tap isn’t done out of anger and frustration because a small child is having a tantrum. Using the word tap is trying to minimise the fact a child is been physically assaulted by an adult.

Nashville why should her dc hurt your friend. I don't blame her.

Assault on a child can currently be defended on the grounds of discipline (within limits - caning would be illegal in practice even in England now I think). Assault on a child in the interests of their own safety, eg to stop them running into the road, would still be defensible just as it would if you forcibly grabbed an adult who hadn’t seen a speeding car. Forcing them into a seatbelt to keep them safe is defensible on grounds of safety but the question of why you are using force to get them into the car when “I don’t wanna go to see grandma!” is a little bit trickier.

There may be issues concerning less violent assault though. Clearly if you bundled a screaming adult up under your arm like a carpet to carry them home because they were tantrumming and refusing to leave and their baby sibling needed feeding then that would be illegal. Will physically forcing a child to do/go something/where they don’t want be defensible on the grounds of family organisation or will we take the gentle parenting approach that if you can’t persuade them without force then granny will have to have Sunday lunch alone.

mtpaektu

This was made law in New Zealand 10 years ago in 2007. People moaned initially but gradually adjusted and accepted that smacking/hitting kids is not acceptable.

I imagine this is true amongst parents who already parented their children pretty well and were (and still are) very unlikely to attract the attention of the police or social services.

But if you think it's true for other parents, I suggest you take a trip down to your local district court, or read the law reports or the newspapers. The depressing reality is that children regularly have seven bell bashed out of them by their parents, caregivers or step-parents and often the first that social services hear of it is when the coroner's court is convened. Beating up children was never legal under the law in NZ (and won't be under the existing laws in England and Scotland) as it wasn't justifiable, or reasonable, and wasn't a genuine exercise of discipline rather than rage. I think UK Mumsnetters would be absolutely appalled at the frequency of severe violence against children here, and the number of deaths of children at the hands of adults. There are some reports I can hardly bear to read.

The point to note here is that while banning smacking may be a step in the right direction, no one should assume it will prevent physical assaults on children - these were always illegal and the state should resort to its existing laws and other means to stop them.

YANBU!

a lot of judging on this thread. I'll be honest I have smacked on occasion and regretted it and know it's not a good strategy and actually encourages kids to hit back however I don't think it makes me an overall terrible parent. parenting is really hard at times and we have all done things we are not proud of and I think a bit more realism is needed. Agree the wives comparison to children makes no sense either.

^@speakout

I cared for my great aunt who had Alzheimers in the later stages of her life.
Often her behaviour was child like,

She would attempt to cross the road without looking and was often unreasonable.

Much like a child.

Perhaps the odd smack would have helped.

And far better to have the occassional smack at home than go into care eh?^

You would want your great aunt stopped from walking into traffic right? So how did you stop her from hurting herself? Because if you do know physically stoppping a toddler running off would become assault.

The law (in the UK) allows for restraint of people who lack the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves. Bur doesn't cover children.

Surely its more likely social services would get involved in smacking cases to give support and help parents learn better ways to discipline their children than getting prosecuted?

My ex accused me of smacking DD and the police didn't get involved in that, social services contacted me and questioned me and asked me to take DD to a doctor to be checked out for any signs of violence.
A recent survey here found that smacking/flicking and hair pulling (the most common form of physical punishment here) has dropped from 15% of women and 16% of men in 2007 to 12% of women and just 5% of men. I expect in another generation or so it'll drop even more as it becomes less and less acceptable and children grow up without ever being smacked and then raise their own children without it.

Clitoria - love the diagram!

From experience, smacking comes from anger and a desire to make your child scared of you so you won’t do something again.

Unfortunately I made repeated mistakes, but I did get very fast at running away so I couldn’t get smacked

I would never ever smack my children, they are beautifully behaved without a punishment in sight

@ummmmgogo - there are other ways to discipline a child than smacking, ffs!

@Uokbing @RebelRogue - nobody is saying that a wife and a child are exactly the same entity. They are saying that wives and children (or anyone, for that matter) shouldn't be hit, which is what smacking is. I'm trying hard to understand why you would trivialise it. Children shouldn't feel pain inflicted by their parents or another adult. Of course they'll hit each other because they're CHILDREN. The reason parents shouldn't do it is because they're ADULTS. Why is this so hard to understand?