Aibu to think that no gender is perfect

[Yourownworstenemy]

I genuinely don't know if I am being unreasonable here.

I feel like there is so much stuff around at the minute hating on men (even before the weinstien thing) I feel like it's almost becoming ALL women against ALL men.

Do not get me wrong I fully agree we should all (men and women) stand with victims and fight for justice and punishment for the perpetrators.

But I just feel a bit like certain groups are using recent events to 'prove' all men are abusers, it's almost become all women are victims and all men are abusers, i agree the men (and women) who have committed crimes should be punished but there are many men in the world that aren't abusers, and there are many women in the world that are, and I feel like we are becoming a bit blind to that in recent years.

In real life I daren't voice this though because I'm not always the most articulate person and I feel It might seem like I am defending people like Weinstein which obviously I am definitely not doing!

[AssassinatedBeauty]

"I just don't really understand why the average joe blog's off the street should be shouted at any louder than the average Tina blog's on the street, they're both equally as duty bound to stand up against it in my opinion"

Do you feel the same way about racism and homophobia? That black people are equally responsible for addressing racism, and LGB people for addressing homophobia? Even though they are not the people who perpetrate it and are less likely to be in positions of power/influence/wealth etc?

[peanut2017]

Minimum97 can you clarify what you think a radical feminist is please?

[peanut2017]

Op I think you need to do some research on issues affecting women on a daily basis and then come back to us.

I find it hard to believe that you can’t see that men hold the balance of power in the majority of structures - business (look at the number in of female ceo and board members), politics (look at the number of women in any government and that are female leaders). In Ireland where I live we have never had a female leader.

Look at religion - Catholic Church don’t let women become priests, they interfere in telling women how to look after their own bodies.

Rights to abortion - again in Ireland this is not legal and women every day have to travel to the UK. It has only just come out that a women died who was from Ireland and had to go to the uk to have a abortion. She died on the way home. Do you know what it feels like to have to go to another country to avail of this?

Media, music, Hollywood and on and on

For me personally what I find so hard to swallow with this argument of ‘not all men’ is women saying this who are not enraged, upset and commenting on this issue for women? Can you see how frustrating this is? Why not put more energy into researching these issues for other women rather than constantly trying to come back with these posts?

[Motherbear26]

Op, I do understand where you’re coming from, honestly. Most men are as appalled by all this as we are. But as pp’s have said, women have been fighting against this for decades alone. All I would ask is that those good men, which we have established are many, don’t focus on being tarred with the same brush. I would ask that they speak up when they hear ‘locker room talk’, that they step in when they see someone trying to take advantage of an intoxicated woman, that they stop minimising incidents as ‘banter’ when a woman is clearly unhappy and that when they are in positions of power, they step in when they see one of their peers behaving inappropriately, rather than just accepting it as ‘oh that’s just Harvey, they old dog’.

Years ago, my dh’s boss groped me. It was ‘minor’, and he was using my backside to ‘illustrate’ a point. My dh didn’t see and I felt unable to say anything at the time (We were quite young, now he would get an immediate slap) but I was appalled. I was upset and told my dh afterwards and of course he believed me, but he minimised the action saying, ‘oh he was just showing us what he meant’, ‘oh you know what he’s like’ etc etc. To make this clear, my dh was quite high up in the company and exceptionally good at his job. There was no chance he would be let go for any reason and even he acknowledged that. Afterwards ex-boss quite often tried to sit a bit too close to me, make me dance with him etc. All very minor things. He was like that with a lot of the women and we soon discovered he had been actively pursuing his poor pa for years. My dh did eventually notice the behaviour and left the company soon after to set up on his own but I never forgot that it took him witnessing the behaviour himself, and having it corroborated by said pa, to take action.

After the events of the past few days I brought it up and he did apologise but said that at the time he didn’t think it was worth saying anything. I asked him to just consider what he might have done if ex boss had done any of this to him. He finally, after all these years, understood why I had been so upset.

My dh is a feminist, respects women and would never commit some of the acts we’ve heard about recently. But he still didn’t think his wife being groped was a big enough issue to take action because his ex boss was, and I quote, ‘a good bloke’. My feelings weren’t enough to jeopardise ex-boss’s marriage because he’s just a bit touchy feely, he doesn’t mean anything. Dh finally understands that if he wouldn’t do it to one of the guys, it is a problem and he should say something. That is all I would ask from the other good guys. If that makes me a radical feminist so be it.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

slinky

Why would anyone flame you

Yes youve ben lucky, thats fine

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

mother

Excellent post

[treaclesoda]

I'm always slightly baffled by the statements about how men don't report crime against them because no one would believe it.

Isn't it ironic? Women live with this every day of their lives. From little girls who are bullied at school being told that they are overly sensitive, to teenage girls being told that teenage boys are just big balls of hormones and if they 'went too far' it was just a misunderstanding, to women in the workplace being told that when a man touches their breast or backside it must surely have been an accident, or that they have sour grapes because they wanted a promotion they didn't get.

This happens to women all the time. All the time. It's almost drummed into us that women are liars. But boo hoo for the men, because no one listens when a man speaks.

[GruffaloPants]

I haven't seen anyone blaming all men. If you have, you need to confront your friends or get some new ones.

[OpalIridescence]

Ok OP I finally hear you. Should be all people against perpetrators.
Why don't we start with you?

Are you now going to go and spend as much time online defending the women who are speaking up as you have defending mens feelings?

[IfNot]

Most men are as appalled by all this as we are
They really aren't. They spend very little time ever thinking about it. Yes, they get upset when their girlfriend tells them about a past rape, and they might feel protective over women and girls they love, but I don't think they really get the enormity of the day to day harassment and belittlement that so many women and girls experience. (Especially girls under 19).
At the same time, men know full well what other men are like. They take comfort in thinking these other men are arseholes and they themselves are not, so that's ok then.
Its not enough.
I have a son and I care deeply about protecting him from violence, but honestly, it's violence or abuse from men that I worry about when it comes to him too.
I think the reason some women try and portray the small numbers of female on male violence as "part of the same problem" is because at heart they are worried that if they say " this is happening to the majority of women and men are doing it" then men won't like them anymore.
I haven't cared for years if men like me or not. It's extraordinarily liberating.

[OpalIridescence]

ifnot, yes, exactly! Ok ,men are at risk of violence, overwhelmingly from other men! If OP was serious here, she would acknowledge that even if the victim may be interchangeable the vast majority of perpetrators are not. That is what is being deliberately glossed over.

I also agree that men are not as appalled by this, I am married to a decent man, however this stuff is just not on his radar in reality. If he thinks about it in relation to me or his daughters, there is a predictable protective response but not the understanding of how it fits together with harmless jokes etc.

However, I feel we are wasting our time, I don't see any actual engaging or discussion going on at all. Lots of people have raised point after point. Op has simply repeated the response of 'no, no matter what you say, I will not agree all women should be against all men'! Which no one had actually said!

[Motherbear26]

Ifnot sadly you are probably right.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

They really aren't. They spend very little time ever thinking about it. Yes, they get upset when their girlfriend tells them about a past rape, and they might feel protective over women and girls they love, but I don't think they really get the enormity of the day to day harassment and belittlement that so many women and girls experience. (Especially girls under 19).
At the same time, men know full well what other men are like. They take comfort in thinking these other men are arseholes and they themselves are not, so that's ok then.
Its not enough

This with bells on

[trainedopossum]

'I suppose what it comes down to is I just don't see the need to specify men, if we assume these men are all guilt free of perpetrating these crimes and if we assume that some women are in equally influential jobs, then isn't it just easier to say 'all you people with influence who aren't doing anything should get off your arses''

Hmm, so your argument is based on a pyramid of assumptions then? Most of which seem to be a bit farfetched.

Given your lack of interest in feminism, you can't be expected to know the level of your ignorance, so let me tell you that people with a genuine interest in this subject are tired of explaining it to you and people like you. If you want to know more about why so many people feel this way - and you did ask if you were BU - read up. It isn't difficult to find a basic feminism reading list online. Then come back and see if you want to ask a different question.

When a child says 'but why?' over and over we accept that that is a way to learn. For a child. When an adult does something similar (except you aren't even really asking, just rehashing the same tired hand-wringing about innocent men over and over) it is tiresome and goady. You have some responsibility to understand the questions you are asking.

This is privilege pure and simple. You think you've earned the right to know so little about your own position in society? Sorry, you've just been lucky. Not all of us have been so lucky.