Aibu to think that no gender is perfect

[Yourownworstenemy]

I genuinely don't know if I am being unreasonable here.

I feel like there is so much stuff around at the minute hating on men (even before the weinstien thing) I feel like it's almost becoming ALL women against ALL men.

Do not get me wrong I fully agree we should all (men and women) stand with victims and fight for justice and punishment for the perpetrators.

But I just feel a bit like certain groups are using recent events to 'prove' all men are abusers, it's almost become all women are victims and all men are abusers, i agree the men (and women) who have committed crimes should be punished but there are many men in the world that aren't abusers, and there are many women in the world that are, and I feel like we are becoming a bit blind to that in recent years.

In real life I daren't voice this though because I'm not always the most articulate person and I feel It might seem like I am defending people like Weinstein which obviously I am definitely not doing!

[LongTermPerm]

Why do men hold more power? Aren't we equal?

No, that's kind of the entire point

[TheCatOfAthenry]

Well I identify as a 65th gender known as a geflumbel and I'm pretty perfect.

[Motherbear26]

Witsender, was just about to say the exact same thing. Also women were aware of what happened because they had also been victimised in one way or another. They felt ashamed and it was also made clear that speaking out would be career ending. That may have been the case for some men, but there were plenty who were of equal status who turned a blind eye and minimised the behaviour. The stakes are higher for women.

[Motherbear26]

Unfortunately we are not equal. Hasn’t this entire situation illustrated that?

[MagdalenLaundry]

I was coming on to agree with ridding the world of regressive notions of gender
But I realise you mean sex and the poor downtrodden men
It's hard enough for women to talk about anything without it being hijacked
Look around you OP. Most positions of power are taken by men
How would you describe assault? A person assaulted a different person?
It tells us nothing about society and which persons are vulnerable

[Witsender]

Riiiiiiight. If there is one thing that the Weinstein thing has taught us is that we are all equal. There is no such thing as the patriarchy.

[AdalindSchade]

Why do men hold more power? Aren't we equal?

Jesus no! How can you possibly think we hold equal power to men? What planet are you on?!

[peanut2017]

Here we go again. OP in all seriousness you need to open your eyes to what is going on.

Also please reflect on your own experiences and question if you have ever been verbally or physically abused, sexually assaulted or made to feel uncomfortable deliberately by men?

If you haven’t you are in the minority. Why would you feel the need to pity and worry about men when it’s clearly women who are at a disadvantage in the world?

Please read up about what is happening to women all over the world

[SomewhatIdiosyncratic]

Most men I've known are decent people who treat females as their equals. At the low level end of scale they probably are blind to the range of problems that women face though.

A post earlier on another thread reminded me of a group holiday years ago. I ended up going to the crowded bar to buy a round which was 4 pints. The pints were put in front of me and I realised I had a problem; I can't wrap my small hands around 4 pint glasses to carry them. I did the only logical thing which was to dip my fingers in to pinch a pair at a time, and carried them back to my group. My friend was disgusted that I'd put my fingers in and asked why I didn't just leave two of them at the bar. I'd had it drummed in to me that you don't be so stupid as to leave a drink unattended and have known someone who suspects that her drink was spiked at a bar. Being male, that kind of self defence mechanism wasn't at the forefront of his mind. It's never occured to me before that there was a gendered perspective on how to deal with such a minor problem.

(I suppose a tray could have been another solution, if there was one and if I could finally get the attention of the bar staff again )

[peanut2017]

OP I think your username is very apt for starting a thread like this

Seriously how can you not see that women don’t have all the power that’s the whole point? Look at religion, politics, business, music, media etc - majority of the top, decision makers are....guess what...MEN

[AdalindSchade]

Most men I've known are decent people who treat females as their equals.

Most men I've known are decent people who still don't treat women as their equals because they are socialised not to, even if they try to be fair and equal to be honest. There isn't a man alive who escaped male socialisation.

[MsUnderstanding]

Aren't we equal?

No. That's kinds of the whole point, men are the perps, women the victims, in most cases. Nothing equal about that.

[HipToBeSquare]

Well I'll say you're either not female, lived under a rock or are a goady fucker.

[engineersthumb]

Yes I agree that more violent crime is committed by men than women but I do think the level of violent crime committed by women is significantly under reported. When I used to go out to bars and clubs (in essex but im assuming everywhere was the same!) I saw women gouge, glass and attack people but I can't think of one occasion where it was reported. The attitude being "you can't be beaten up by a girl". Of course I saw much more violence between men but often that did involve a police response. Sexual crime is of course inexcusable and i would hope that it would never be excused in any way between men or women for that matter. I think the really important change that is needed is that area of behavior that falls short of sexual crime but is over familiar or down right threatening. The sort of men that conduct this sort of behavior tend to group together so therefore between themselves it is condoned. Why don't "normal" men challenge this? Well possibly because the very men who do conduct this sort of behavior are generally the same sort of men who will violently attack others. I see general social attitudes changing, having worked in engineering for over 20 years I've seen greater female representation and with it a much improved attitude towards women. That said you don't have to look far in other environments to see awful problems and probably the best way to address the problems are to talk about them. Sometimes the narrative may seem denigrating of all men which is unfortunate and I think generally unintended but I also can appreciate why.

[OpalIridescence]

Yes, we are all equal.

Two men and two women are murdered every week.
Fifty fifty split of rapes and victims of violence
Pay is definitely equal.
Housework and childcare are lovingly shared.
Status and power are wonderfully balanced.
Every day, tedious, teeth grinding sexism, harrasment and dismissal is felt the same by all regardless of 'gender'

Really, one has to wonder why women whine on and on like we do!

Please apologise to all the lovely, sweet men in your life everyone!
Sounds like women talking about their actual experiences might hurt mens feelings 😔

[AssassinatedBeauty]

@Yourownworstenemy do you think women are fully equal in all areas of society? Yes, in the UK we have equality laws which say that we should be equal, but that doesn't mean that every man everywhere instantly treats women as equals. It just means that there is the possibility for you to complain and take to court someone who doesn't treat you fairly.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

Even some random geezer in the supermarket feels entitled to tell me to "Cheer up love" (which I know isn't sexual harrassment but is indicative of what men feel comfortable saying to women that no-one would say to a man)

Thats cos they are afraid they will get their heads kicked in...from you know....a violent man

They can say it us cos you know...what are we going to do about it

[engineersthumb]

Oo I've definitely told other men to "cheer up might never happen"! Usually to test the waters and find out if they're an axe murderer but there you go!

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

Thats interesting engineer

Whats your success rate so far?

[engineersthumb]

No missing limbs yet!

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

Well thats a positive

[Voice0fReason]

OP, it seems that you have spectacularly missed the point.
No-one is saying that all men are abusers but men are the ones who need to change this.

[MiniMum97]

OP your point is perfectly reasonable and perfectly made. I wouldn’t bother coming on Mumsnet though with questions like that as these posts are always taken over by radical feminists who don’t represent the views of normal society. I particularly love the way they have demeaned and belittled you while accusing men of doing he same to women. Pretty disgusting, bullying behaviour to another woman. They should be ashamed.

[SmileEachDay]

OP

It’s worrying that your concern about sexual violence is centred around men’s feelings - and that you blame women for their feelings.

It’s not women tarring all men with the same brush, it’s the men who are violent abusers who hold sole responsibility for letting down their sex.

Stop men being violent abusers and you stop the problem.

I’m a rad fem mini - is my view “not that of normal society”?

[Yourownworstenemy]

Voiceofreason it seems you have missed the point, as I actually said this thread was inspired by exactly that, someone saying all men were the enemy.

Thank you minimum, I had no intention of upsetting anyone and I certainly am no sympathizer to anyone who displays this kind of behaviour, but I Thu k what most people have said which is essentially 'some men are abusers and women suffer because of this, therefore all men should fix it and be blamed for it'

Just because I share a sex with someone, does not mean I am responsible for their actions, and not wanting to be blamed for their actions does not make me a sypathiser, I can condemn what someone does without having to share the blame for it