is it OK to tell another persons child off? Do ytoher people get scared by confrontation?

[PeachyChocolateEClair]

Incident in pub play area (outdoor) today. We quickly spotted this 10 year old was a problem- he was trying to herd all the three year olds playing in the beer agrden into the road (!) and also into the bins ( a small enlced area behind a gate where he was shutting the gate). I however missed the first enocunter- where my Sis and BIL ahd to corner him to stop them kicking their 3 year old (I went to take ds3 to the loo). About tem minutes alter we looked up and he was jitting ds3 with a stick. Dh went over quicklyadmittefly shouting 'Oi!' quitre loudly- to distract him I think. Then this woman- came out of noewhere shouting and swearing, spat in DH's face and apaprently (according to ds1- I was grabbing ds's) in ds3's face too. HSe then just yelled at us really anstily for about 5 minutes, apaprenlty the fact that he was 10 didnt mean he should not be hurtinga three year old- age irrelevelnt. Etc. The landlady almost threw us all out, eventhough sis / bil / me and mainly DH (he did try and refute a few things she said) were sitting trying to ignore her / calm things down. then she went, and the rest of the time was shouting insults / getting her ds to put his fingers up at us. DH thinks she was drunk, but she had her macdonads uniform on so i think she was probably not, and off to work later (sjhe may already have been).

Should Dh not have shouted do you think? I mean, clearly people who spit at kids are not the nicest, neither are people who allow thier children to put their fingers up at oher famillies. Do why am Is till shaking and feeling really, really guilty? Sis says woman was out of order (we had been up and down monitoring our kids, she just sat there and let him get on with it).

Dh says the reason I fel so abd is that I had a crap childhood and shouting really terrifies me- it was often folowed by physical attacks on me and my sisters (from either parent) and I have a particularly abd memory of Mum being in the kitchen with dad fighting yelling 'I'm being raped' and I've nver known if she was (she was heavily depressed and unbalanced at that time). Any shouting scares me
rigid.

Its totally ruined a nice day, Sis has just found she is pg with ehr second and it was supposed to be a gat tohgether . Should DH ahve not said anything? This woman said we weren't watching the kids- we thought we were, maybe not well enough, and that they caused it all? But surely if a 3 year old does (as she said) push or whatever a 10 year old its not OK for him to be whacked with a stick?

I would DEFINATELY tell off a 10 yo for beating my 3yo with a stick. PC, don't feel bad. You're probably all shakey fromt the adrenaline and it's never nice to be shouted at. TBH if someone spat in my 3 yo's face I'd fing have em. No one does that to my little girl!!!!

poor you and your family, definately don't think that you (dh) were in the wrong. and on the biting (if it happened) think i would want to bite aswell - wtf else could a non-verbal 3yo do??

I shouted at a 10yo on Sunday when he kicked my 4.5yo on a slide (ds was waiting for 10yo's sister to climb up the slide, she got up and roughly told ds to wait, I think there was another coming up, and the 10yo then kicked ds to go down the slide - quite roughly not just a tap with his foot). I shouted "oi, don't kick that isn't nice", he looked agro then looked away, so I said "well what do you say to him then?", he looked shocked then said sorry to ds1

PCE, in 35 an if someone bigger had me trapped and scared I think I would bite them, none of this is your child's fault.
The bloody woman was probably making it up so as not to look so bloody useless at looking after her child.

But peachy it was not unprovoked biting (if it happened)- he was cornered and scared and couldn't shout for help. What was he to do? I have an almost 3yo and if that happened to her she would have been hysterical, totally beside herself for the rest of the day I am sure. I think the response from all members of your family was correct and proportionate.

If someone spat in any of my families face I would have called the police without a doubt.

Poor you peachy, as if you haven't got enough going on

Big hugs and how awful that your day was ruined by such scum. Sorry but that's what she was/is.

Hugs X X X X X X

Peachy...the problem clearly lays at the way that woman raises her child...well... if my 10 year old would hurt a younger child, then I would not at all be offendet if the parent of that child would tell him off...if I didn't get there first,that is!
Some people are just unbeliavable!

oh peachy what a crappy incident.
I would have done the same i.e. raised my voice and yes I may even have considered calling the police if someone had spat in my face.
vile woman, try and put it out of your mind
HC xx

Kimi, I've been in Mallorca (where it rained!). Nice to have a holiday though.

Peachy, you are far too bloody nice and understanding! We are all animals underneath it all and animals bite when they are scared (and come on - all kids bite from time to time, we don't like it but they do). It's the behaviour of the 10 yr old and his mother that I have a problem with, and I admire the way you reacted and are continuing to react.

I think it was your DH's protective instinct that made him shout as the best way to rescue his child. I am that any mother would spit at anyone in her child's presence let alone encourage the child to do that. How awful.

DS went through a phase of spitting (copied off football on TV) when he was 4. DH and I both came down on him like a ton of bricks. He has never done it since.

DS has been told off by other mothers (who he doesn't know) a couple of times recently (he is 3). It bothers me in the sense that it is embarassing (not sure how it could fail to be), but logically I think these mothers would also run to him if they fell off the climbing frame and was hurt, so telling him off if necessary is an extension of this - you can't expect people to look out for your children if they were in need, but ignore their bad behaviour - its part of being a community. Also, I hope that if somebody else tells him off he might be a bit more shocked and it might sink in a bit more.

Peachy, this family sound like a total nightmare. Its a shame you had to encounter them, but try not to take their behaviour to heart.

Dh ahs told me now that the landlady took her aside and said she'd e removed if she didnt stop, he didnt tell me because woman said she'd call police- had we realised 10 years was responsibility age we'd ahve done it ourselves. have a feeling they might have known her anyhow.

Is it really bitchy of me to ask howcome if she adores her son so much and he is so eprfect, she smokes over him and he weighs so much he ogt stuck on some rides?

Poor poor poor child.

i ddint realise either about the sitting until after (I did Dh but not ds3) LOL sounds like I wasnt watching, I was but was dazed and confused. If I ahd seen her spit at ds3 I would have been up there with Dh I expect- in my world spitting is never, ever OK- nasty habit.

Am feeling a bit less sahky, dh has made me realise I do have confrontation issues- which I need to work on (an ed psych got nasty at us recently because we complained abot her- we posted letter on Mn though so I know it wasnt vindictive or anything). I think also perhaps my passivity in these situations invites attacks, in that I seem an easy target. Where I grew up, smacking people and loutishness was the order of the day and I always ahted it- Mum taught me I was better than ththat, but she also taught me I was always the one in the wrong in thee situations. I've gottten too battered down trying to get help for ds's as well (ds1 AS, DS3 is, but not officially, ASD). Been accused in the past of it all being down to aprenting / me asking for everything for my kids and not caring for the others / over reaction so I don't know, I think I have a bit of work to do on me.

But Hey! i'm going to ba an Aunty again! How fab! See if Sis manages to break the run of 5 boys in our family and produce a girl? My bet is she will.

MP, I think the more different adults that tell a child the same thing, the more the child will see that this is unacceptable bhvr. Cos you know they never behave as well for mummy as they do for others.
Why IS that????

Spitting in someone's face is also assult as it can spread serious diseases, so the police could have had her on that one too.
She and her child both deserved a good telling off if not more and you should not feel guilty!

I think that you were quite restrained under the circs - had that been my family, the 10-year old or his mother would have probably ended up wearing the stick if he'd been attacking my dd aged 3!!

Not really relevant but I was grabbed and hit by a SN child once - he seemed to have an objection to the colour red and unfortunately I was wearing a red sweater at the time - he'd been staring at me for a few seconds quite intently then lashed out at me. I was just walking into a pub beer garden at the time with a friend. I didn't know what to do and it seemed like an eternity until his father came over to apologise and pull him off. What can you do in those circs - please keep your child under control in a public place???!

Well if he has a tendency to be like that (and they would know i woudl think) they should be supervising him but then they did come over. But its ahrd trying to work out where the borders are for your particualr child: going for toher people though is never OK, 0though when DS1 has done it in the past i expect people to be mroe understanding than maybe of others, albeit they always get a full apology and removal of child). And you dont want to over prtoect either- they ahve to grow and cope.

Peachy what a horrid woman and I pity her poor child, what an awful role model he has

I will always step in when kids are rude/rough around ds and his friends - perhaps to my disadvantage one day (I hope not). Also, if ds was being rude/naughty, I would hope that another adult would gently chastise him - enough to make him stop and think anyway. (do i have clouds in my head!?)

Well done you Peachy. I'm lousy at confronting loutish behaviour even in littlies, to my shame. I've been lucky so far, nothing anywhere near as bad as you went through, but I certainly back you all the way. In general I am sure that a zero tolerance approach (dealing with louts assertively but not agressively), makes life sweeter for everyone in the long run but these days I think it takes real courage.

It was Dh that did well, not me!

there is something that is really anrking me now- this is the second time this year that one of my kids have been atatcked (DS1 you may remember was attacked at the local pool for going in the disabled kids toilets when his as isnt visible- smashed head against cistern)

With both incidents, i dot hink the inability of the ASd child to read motive is involved.

Poor mites

How thee hell can I protect tham?

i think - in a park - you could have talked to the mum - the mum woudl have been clearer to see for instance

on your street - you might know where he is - to se his mum

at a pub - likleyhood of gobby shits, my reaction would have been to tell the landlord.

you were not in the wrong

it rather depends on the circumstances. i would tell the landlord save getting my head kicked in

But if it stopped him getting hurt.....

All Dh said was 'Oi'- more to attract attention and stop the kid mid act, rather than anything else. I don't think he owuld have amde much more of an issue reallt, as long as it stopped

I think parenting like this woman's parenting is the reason for loads of the problems we have in our schools and streets/parks/society. I've seen it so often. Just these vile people who seem to have absolutely no idea of any behavioural norms at all. It's like they're feral or something. It's just so depressing.
I have told other people's children off before but now I'm careful just to take my ds out of the way of that kind of behaviour - these days you could get shot for looking at someone in a funny way!

I think that there's a big difference between a child having SN and just being brought up in a loutish way. I'm not saying that children with SN can't learn how their behaviour affects other people but I think most people would be/are more understanding than they are or would be for a child without visible (sorry) signs of SN or one with a 'fishwife' for a parent. It's probably best to make polite remonstrations to the child so they learn that not everyone appreciates thuggish behavour - it might even teach his mother some lessons.

LOL kerrymum.

Trouble is today kids get away with murder (and yes I do mean murder in that sence as well) as the parents are not allowed to smack them, the police can do nothing, if you defend yourself against them they call the police and you get in trouble, if they wont go to school well then lets bribe them with an ipod, if they are badly brought up and violent and disruptive lets give them a hug and a label and some ritlin as there is no such thing as a little shit plain and simple any more or a product of his or her upbringing, its all some deep underline problem.

Children are stabbing, shooting, raping each other, and all we do as a society is form a bloody hugging circle.
Every day in the papers you read worse and more jaw dropping news about how the law is useless and kids are getting worse and worse.
The sad thing is we are all getting to used to it and I find it getting less and less shocking that a 12 year old is having a baby, 14 and 15 year olds are shooting each other.
I was on a bus when 2 older ladies were talking about the recent shootings between young boys, and one said well if they think they are so tough give them all a gun put them on a island and let them exterminate themselves, and you know what I think they meant it.

Erm kimi, I garee on the some kids are very badly brought and nobody can seem to do anything but I should point out that is is really, really ahrd to get a diagnosis these days (trust me on that with 2 kids with invisible disabilities), its years often just to see a PAed. I would guess any child on ritalin needs it- plus ir doesn't actually work on those who don't, just amkes them worse- its actually a stimulant.

Sorry thanks for your support. I really aprpeciate it, even if it doesnt sound like it. Hopefully you all know me by now to understand Im a bit bristly about thee things, wth good reason.