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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how anyone can read this without their head exploding!

110 replies

lemonsandlimes123 · 17/10/2017 13:40

Not literally obviously! But the ideas and scale of space I just find completely mind blowing! After a few minutes I just have to think about something else!

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/16/astronomers-witness-neutron-stars-collide-global-rapid-response-event-ligo

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/10/2017 16:50

As if all this doesn't make us feel small enough, here's a beautiful piece from Carl Sagan to make us feel even smaller:

Lancelottie · 17/10/2017 16:53

They have never explained the evidence for any of this. They just pull things out of the air.

You sure you weren't just thinking about something else while 'they' were trying to explain it?

BeyondThePage · 17/10/2017 16:56

I just re-read Bill Bryson - "a short history of nearly everything" - very good at explaining sciency things, and very good at putting the NEXT question into your head...

Well worth a read for enquiring minds!

Vitalogy · 17/10/2017 17:00

Puzzle There's no need to feel small. Here's a heart warming video narrated by Alan Watts:

SpeverendRooner · 17/10/2017 17:22

@lemonsandlimes123 - the headaches still come, just at a higher level. There's always something more to learn...

@icedtea - there's plenty of evidence consistent with our latest models. The LIGO/VIRGO detection of gravitational waves is one such piece.

@OnlyParentsAreReal - I'm not sure what you mean by that. Our current best theories are easiest to interpret with four dimensions. Candidates for future theories include things like string theory that claim 11+ dimensions, and things like Shape Dynamics that claim only three. I don't know much about either beyond their names, though.

OnlyParentsAreReal · 17/10/2017 17:25

speverend can't you think/visualise in more than 3D?

SpeverendRooner · 17/10/2017 17:33

Oh, and @lemonsandlimes123 - I used to be a professional physicist, although not in this field. I always wanted to study this kind of thing, though, and a lot of people put their notes online these days. I have the grounding in physics to learn from lecture notes, so I do spend quite a lot of my spare time studying. I think it just gets more fascinating the more I learn.

SpeverendRooner · 17/10/2017 17:35

@OnlyParentsAreReal - no. But Riemann developed a nice set of tools for thinking about arbitrary-dimensional manifolds anyway.

icedtea · 17/10/2017 17:36

You sure you weren't just thinking about something else while 'they' were trying to explain it?

The linked article presents no hard evidence whatsoever.
"The collision of a pair of neutron stars, marked by ripples through the fabric of space-time and a flash brighter than a billion suns, has been witnessed for the first time in the most intensely observed astronomical event to date"

If the event was "witnessed" and it was a "flash bigger than a billion suns" then why not present actual photographs/videos etc. Instead the article is accompanied by a laughable cartoon animation of the event.

ArseHair · 17/10/2017 17:42

Monty Python summed it all up the best for me! Eric Idle is a genius...

Daffydil · 17/10/2017 17:47

Icedtea - if it wasn't about to be dinner time I could go and find the papers the news article is based on.

If someone else hasn't done it before I get back (after the baby's bed time) I will!

Lancelottie · 17/10/2017 17:48

Yes, but the linked article is just a chatty pop-science piece. Here's the actual Nature paper (well, one of them).

'Witnessed' is just their way of saying 'detected'.

SpeverendRooner · 17/10/2017 17:50

@icedtea - pictures: figure 2 in science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/10/13/science.aap9580.full

OnlyParentsAreReal · 17/10/2017 17:54

speverend ah ok. I've always "seen" things in multiple other dimensions since I was a baby so from my point of view its not really an if. It's kind of hard to explain. I think its because of my synesthesia. For instance time has physical properties that interlinks with its self in more than 3 dimensions.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/10/2017 17:56

I used to be a professional physicist

Yes, it shows Wink

Personally I'm so stupid around physics that my understanding stopped at bimetallic strips, so I'm consumed with admiration for anyone who even begins to know what arbitrary-dimensional manifolds actually are

There's this to be said for it though ... it lends a certain magic to the sort of concepts which those with better minds probably consider mundane!!

SpeverendRooner · 17/10/2017 18:52

@Puzzledandpissedoff - a line is a one-dimensional manifold. "One dimension" just means that there's only one direction that you can move without leaving it - forwards-or-backwards. One side of a piece of paper is a two-dimensional manifold. This time there are two directions you can move, forwards-or-backwards and left-or-right. You can move in other directions, but they're all a combination of moving a bit forwards or backwards at the same time as a bit left or right. And space is an example of a three-dimensional manifold, because you can also move in a third direction, up-or-down.

Mathematicians love to complicate things, though, and say "why stop at three directions just because nature does? Can we think about entirely made up manifolds where you can move in four or five or a hundred different directions?" That's where the "arbitrary dimensions" comes in. I'm not sure if Riemann was actually the person who worked out all the maths of these things, but he had a lot to do with it and a whole bunch of them are named after him.

Anyway, then Minkowski (a professor who'd tried to teach an uninterested student by the name of Einstein about these imaginary mathematical things) pointed out that one of them, a four dimensional one where one direction is a bit different from the other three, is a really handy thing for understanding Einstein's theories. Einstein took that idea and ran with it, developing his Special Relativity into General Relativity, which is the theory that predicted the gravitational waves we've recently detected. So now we think that space is only a part of a four-dimensional structure we call spacetime and we try not to be rude about mathematicians over-complicating things. Because it turned out they weren't.

I hopethat makes some kind of sense. Smile It's possibly more than you wanted to know on a random Tuesday...Blush

OnlyParentsAreReal · 17/10/2017 19:29

speverend they aren't made up, you just can't perceive them

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/10/2017 19:54

Actually Speverend I thought that was beautifully put; it's very rare to find someone who can both understand and explain these things, especially to folk like me with so little knowledge

Now that I appreciate what a manifold is (apart from something in a car exhaust!!) I guess my confusion was in thinking the talked-about extra dimensions were known facts which had somehow passed me by, rather than hypotheses ...

KickAssAngel · 17/10/2017 20:06

so really, we're all just a bunch of nothing, with some atoms which have come together almost randomly bumped together to make a human, and we'll disintegrate eventually and become something else. A bit like those adverts for recycling that show a plastic bottle becoming about a million different things.

So - if I'm just a bunch of atoms temporarily shoved together - what are my thoughts? are they just the results of electrons rubbing together and forming certain neural events that I register as an idea, but is nothing more than a physical reaction? Does that mean that (theoretically) a cat could be thinking the same as me if the atoms in our brains both happened to behave in the same way?

safariboot · 17/10/2017 20:41

Humans are the only bunches of atoms we know of that know they are bunches of atoms. For all the scale and majesty of the cosmos, some of the greatest wonders and mysteries of the universe are right here on Earth.

buckeejit · 17/10/2017 21:09

Taxi for one here - my head is scrambled, however I have a need to understand more. Science was always rubbish for me but ds will be 8 in 2 weeks and wants to be a scientist. I do find it fascinating but am easily lost and can't answer any of his questions. Please can you recommend some sources that an eejit can use to improve?

I love the little facts about earth not gaining/losing any mass - I can remember things like that and am fascinated. I think bite size pieces is key for me!

Ttbb · 17/10/2017 21:12

From your title I was expecting an article written so poorly that the reader would be forced to question whether the author is actually literate. But yes, v awesome (in the literal sense of the word). The ft did a short video on this with animated diagrams which my boys really liked watching.

Roomba · 17/10/2017 21:33

I also find it amazing just how much things that are 'general knowledge' have been proven/disproven in my lifetime (I'm 41).

My kids are taught there's a different number of planets in our Solar System than I was as a kid. We now know that living on Venus will never be an option for humans. This very evening DS2 read his school reading book which mentioned Saturn having rings made of rock. He's only five, but he paused and said 'That's not right, they're made of ice aren't they?'. I checked the book and it was published in 2011.

DS1 was amazed when he read that the Big Bang Theory was only conceived in the 60s and was a very contentious theory for a long time (still is in many parts of the world, and many now say it may be wrong anyway). I am a bit awestruck and excited when I imagine all the things we may be able to discover and prove in my lifetime, then the next few hundred years. Who knows what humans will know in a thousand years time?

WoollyMollyMonkey · 18/10/2017 17:53

My mind is blown! If the heavy metals are made 130 million light years away, how did they get to earth, and how come they weren't sucked into the black hole?

OnlyParentsAreReal · 18/10/2017 18:00

Woolly no that's not what happened