How fucking dare he **MNHQ warning at OP's request: distressing content**

[NaiceToMeetYou]

The 'metoo' thing has got me thinking about my own rape 19 years ago. Without going into detail, there were a few men involved, and after being assaulted I was urinated on. (Not by the rapist). I reported it. The cps decided to try each defendent separately, meaning their statements weren't allowed to be used in each other's trials.
The rape case was first and the defence lawyer made a big point of how I'd immediately got changed after the attack so as to lose any evidence. He knew it was because I was covered in piss and I wasn't allowed to say anything. It makes me so fucking angry that he manipulated things.

I was 14 years old btw. I know I'm not unreasonable.

Op. I've been there too. It kills me daily that he was acquitted. I too showered afterwards, due to being covered in alcohol (he tried to set me on fire) and spit.
His defence lawyer was female. I've really struggled with that. I didn't catch the name but whoever mentioned it's nothing like TV and your character gets completely torn apart is completely right. I hate that jury, I hate how I wasn't believed and I hate all this #metoo.
There's so many things you wish you would've said. I think I was in a state of shock throughout the trial.
I was 30 at the time (still am, it wasn't long ago) my heart goes out to you being 14 at the time. I did as I was told too. I was too petrified not to. Whereas he lied and lied and lied some more. Why any woman would put themselves through the trauma of being at rape clinic and being examined whilst wearing a see through forensics suit is unfathomable.

Oh op I'm in tears for you. How very unfairly you were treated. I hope you can find comfort in your life now

I missed "special place in hell for defence lawyers". I am a defence lawyer. And a prosecution lawyer. We don't pick a side for life, we act for whoever instructs us on their instructions. If that sounds like a cop out, it's just the system we have. If the system is adversarial both sides must have a representative. Not everyone charged is guilty.

That said there are so many more rules these days for the fair conduct of trials. Soon all defence advocates doing sexual offence cases will have to be "ticketed " like prosecutors and judges are. They will have to do special training in dealing with vulnerable witnesses. I have done the training and it's good.

That said, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. None of this is to minimise or to cast doubt on your suffering and that of pps who have experienced similar.

It's just to say that the system recognises there is a problem to be dealt with and to explain how the miscarriages of justice in the past might have happened.

This sort of thing makes me so sad and angry.

to you, OP, and all who have been through similar.

I think the "justice" system often really fails victims. Sometimes I do end up wondering how some of these defence lawyers can actually live with themselves!! Do they view it as a feather in their caps to get as many people as possible acquitted from terrible crimes? Likewise for the judges who decide what is or isn't admissible in court!

Cross post with you, blackteas, that is interesting to read.

I'm so angry and sorry for what you have gone through OP and PP

You know that saying about how you can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members. Shame on us and our courts for not doing better sooner.

This is awful - horrible enough to be raped, but then to be treated with even further contempt is beyond belief.

Their parents will have known the truth - I hope they were proud of their sons, and of how they raised them.

And I know it's a barrister's job to defend their client - but surely not their job to deliberately mislead the jury by manipulating and deliberately omitting evidence. It's one thing not to draw attention to something that affects their client - site another to gloatingly misdirect, knowing that there is nothing you can do about it,

Horrible!

You are tremendously strong to have come through this - and being angry is GOOD. Anger is a strong emotion and shows that you are regaining your self-esteem and your personal power.

ur justice system is a joke when things like this are allowed.

I was assaulted walking home, a man tried to put his hand down my knickers after grabbing me. A former boyfriend bullied me, aggressively into sex. Been groped on nights out, had blokes grab me and I couldn't get them off. Had 2 'family friends' do minor stuff when I was 10 yes old. Keep squeezing my knee, put arms round me. Boys at school making comments about the girls breasts constantly etc A friend was sexually assaulted by a boyfriend, she didn't even think of it as assault until I pointed it out. Nothing done or will be done. Just didn't see the point. I am so angry of the sheer number of women who have been molested. I don't know if it's conditioning, but it never even occured to me that it was wrong. I just shrugged it off. That's pretty terrible😥. I just got on with it. I have spoken to so many women, who have said they were assaulted, it's shocking. I'm so angry at people blaming the women, they are victims. You are so brave and I cannot imagine what that experience was like for you. Then women are blamed for not coming forward!! I was told by someone, that if the man who assaulted me did it again to someone else, that it was my fault!!! I sometimes think about that. Harvey Weinstein, the poor girl assaulted 3 times in one night, even the Cologne sex attack. It makes me despair.

You are fucking amazing OP - you were 14 and you reported them,, you stood up to these pathetic excuses for humans. Well-bloody-done.

I was also raped at 14, just by 1 guy, but I didn't have the nerve or maturity to report it - to be honest I was so terrified that I had contracted HIV (it was his parting shot to me, "ha ha - I've just given you AIDS", and this was in the early 90's when all the tombstone adverts were on the TV) that I couldn't even bear to acknowledge what had happened.

It stays with you, you don't think about it every day, or even week, but it's there at the back of your mind just waiting to pop up and say "hi, remember me?" - especially at the moment, with what is going on in Hollywood.

The injustice of what they get away with is utter torture.

I believe you, I believe me, I believe the hollywood celebrities who are now speaking up about the sexual assault they have been subjected to in the pursuit of their dreams, I believe the women and girls in various countries around the world, such as India, who are raped and beaten to death to silence them and where rape within marriage is legal, I believe the women who are raped and then forced to marry their rapist. I could go on, and on ... and on.

Thank you for all your kind words. I hope this doesn't put anyone off reporting an assault, absolutely not my intention. I'm just angry. The decision to try them separately was a farce considering his defence was that he hadn't been near me, yet one the others stated he walked in and saw him on top of me. This couldn't be told to the court. Massive mistakes were made and I hope the cps learned from them.

for everyone.

Thankfully the laws concerning the way rape victims are treated during trials were changed in 2002, but only after a young woman committed suicide a few weeks after her rapists trial. His lawyer made her hold up the underwear she had on during the attack in court. She was 17.

It won't changed what happened to you OP, but it may be some tiny comfort knowing that victims don't have to go through that awful sort of experience any more. I admire your strength for getting through it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3580000/The-justice-that-violates-the-victim-twice.html

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2184457.stm

Reading what happened to Elsie's daughter above, these changes don't seem to have helped.

That's reassuring Angelo.

It’s heartbreaking but at 14 yo it just makes me feel sick. If anyone has been raped or dealt with people who has it’s common to change the clothing took place in not wanting a reminder or wanted to feel clean even if you hadn’t been urinated on. Last thing on your mind is preserving evidence.

I'm so sorry Naice, you are unbelievably strong.

You're all very kind

I'm going just fine, honestly. Wonderful partner, two beautiful dc. I'm one of the lucky ones really

LemonAndLimes it was me saying that about defence lawyers that pull stunts such as above. That defend paedophiles, rapists and murders when they know they're guilty.

No shame on me.....shame on the lawyers that do these things but they obviously feel no shame.

I understand having a defence is part of a fair trial etc. But to tear to shreads a 14 year old like that when you know the full story....disgraceful.

But I also recognise the importance of a good defence and of course not everyone is guilty. And I don't mean all lawyers obviously

But to pull to shreds someone who is already rock bottom, using information you know can't be spoken of during the case to try and get a win. That's awful and must take a really nasty type of person to think of that. Don't you agree

This thread and the articles have made me very teary

OP I am SO pleased you have a happy life now - honestly after this thread I needed to hear that

I am sorry this has all been bought up again in such a painful way

I'm sorry for upsetting anyone. I had a moment this morning and you've all helped a lot.

I'm so sorry OP. There are no words to describe the horror of sexual assault and rape, there really aren't.

The Me Too thing has got me thinking too. I was assaulted repeatedly and systematically and bullied by a classmate when I was 15. Ironically, the lasting effects have not been from the abuse itself, but from the bullying I suffered when I told a teacher about it. It still haunts me all these years later. I was told 'that's just how he is'.

to you OP, and to anyone else who is suffering.

Please do NOT apologise for upsetting anyone

Your story deserves to be heard

All of the posts upset me - it's been days of them

This makes my blood boil for you. I'm so sorry you had to go through something so awful and at only 14!

I hope karma gets all involved and also the defence lawyer for his part in preventing a child getting justice.