Am I wrong to trust/not trust DH?

[HouseStarkfortheWin]

A little long but please stick with me.

I've been married to DH for a little over 2 years. When we were just going out, he never did anything major to make me distrust him per se. A little after we got engaged, for some stupid reason he felt that he no longer could have the same relationship with some of his female friends.

He used to make plans with these female friends and not tell me. Of course I always found out, as he's a crap liar. So the distrust started. What was the need to lie about simply going to the cinema or for a meal with female friends?

His ex girlfriend was invited to his best mates wedding. I wasn't invited. He didn't tell me his exGF would be there. Wouldn't have cared either way as I've never met her and she doesn't bother me. I found out after seeing all these group pictures where they'd all posed happily together. The issue I raised with him was not that she was present but the fact that he had left this information out. He said he thought I would have an issue with it so purposefully didn't tell me.
A few things like his kept happening but I felt like I just had to get over it.

I once saw a message on his phone from a female friend who was waiting around the corner from our house waiting for me to leave so she could come over! When I questioned him about it, he didn't tell me she was coming over as he thought I would have an issue with it and then it made sense as to why he had been trying to usher me out of the house the day before!

Yesterday was DH's birthday and we were out for tea. On the way there in the car his phone rang and it came up on the screen thing in the middle. It was an ex female colleague of DHs. He didn't answer and declined the call. My reason for being upset with him was, why didn't he just simply answer the call? Why decline it and act like he didn't know why she was calling? I'm assuming she was just calling him to wish him a happy birthday and obviously no issue with that. It just annoyed me he declined the call. He said he wrongly assumed I would have a problem with it. Even though we've had the same argument time and time again and I've made it clear him having female friends doesn't bother me.

A few months before this he was having his leaving meal with work he was going straight after his last work shift. Just in casual conversation I asked if he would be driving there by himself or if he would have company for the drive. He said no he's the only one working that particular shift so meeting everyone there. Imagine my surprise when that night his phone buzzes with a message from same female colleague as above with the words 'Thanks for today's lift to the restaurant!'.
He thought I would have an issue with the fact that a girl was in his car so lied to me and obviously his lie got caught out once again.

Now my issue is, I have never ever had any issue with DH having female friends and spending time with them. I myself have male friends who I meet up with, with and without DH.

I don't understand why he lies to me. I feel like I can no longer trust him as I never know when he will be telling the truth about the little things. He constantly tells little white lies which are just so transparent and he always gets caught out.

Am I wrong to trust him? Will I ever be able to fully trust him?

The big question you need to ask yourself is this. Does he lie about other stuff?

Telling lies is functional. Most lies are aimed at creating a space where this allows that person to do as they like, when they know that doing that very thing will cause conflict which forecloses their ability to continue what they are doing. Lies are used to hide uncomfortable and inconvenient truth, always.

If he thinks it's no longer socially acceptable to see other women now he is married, he would give this up, because to be socialising with them is a social thing. It is therefore going to be judged socially by all those he comes into contact with socially. So, he is talking bullshit.

So the waiting for me to leave thing has only
happened once. We weren't living together at this point and I turned up to measure something.

He had made plans for the day (cinema and food with a female friend) and not told me. So I turned up and put the kibosh on his plans unknowingly. He couldn't cancel on friend for the whole day as he 'felt bad' so told her to come around instead assuming I would have left by then and none the wiser.

She then decided waiting around the corner was too weird for her so she left. The day later I needed something from his phone, he was busy so he handed me his phone and asked me to send it to myself. I went to the whatsapp and saw my name in his female friends chat. Wondered what it was and it was messages back and forth with him cancelling their plans, her being like
oh no what a shame, him saying oh come round then etc...

To my knowledge that has never happened again.

I don't think these friends think I'm unhinged at all. I've met all of them many times in the past and admittedly he doesn't see them that much anymore, with being so busy with work and other stuff.

An example is kind of like this:

'Hey Mr, we're all going for a work reunion on Saturday, wanna come? The old crew will be there, good to catch up etc'

DP tells me when and where it is and I'll oh cool sounds fun enjoy.

A day or two later DP finds out he will need to give Female A a lift as we live near each other. Rather than tell me this, his first natural instinct is to just avoid it completely so he won't tell me. I'll be none the wiser. And then something will happen cause he's a shit liar that catches him out. He'll either get a message and he'll lift up his phone to read it and I may be sat next to him, or female friend will thank him for the lift the next time we're all together in a group etc.

So then I of course get angry. He thinks I'm getting angry because he was alone with Female A when I'm just annoyed he lied over such a tiny detail which he was bound to get caught out over anyway.

@ferrier that's what it is. If he's meant to do the dishes for example that day, he'll do it 5 mins before I walk in the house and if I ask him did you just do it 5 mins before he'll lie and be like erm no. I'm not even asking to catch him out, I'll just be joking around with him and the sink may still be wet or something etc.

But his first instinct is that he's going to get in trouble for something. I don't know why, I mean, I'm not his mum but his first instinct is to lie no matter how stupid it sounds

I think the most worrying part is that he's putting his lies onto you; you're the reason he's lying (in his head). He's essentially absolving himself of all the guilt for the lies by saying he's doing it to protect you or stop you being hurt. That's not true; he's simply saying that to emotionally blackmail you into not going mad about the lie. It's the sort of thing I'd expect off a small child "I didn't tell you the truth because I thought you'd go mad" and, frankly, in an adult relationship that sort of behaviour shouldn't exist because it's devious.

He's actively choosing his behaviour. It's not innate to lie. It's not part of a person's DNA; they choose it. So you have two choices; do you tolerate a life with someone you know you can't trust, even in the most simple of ways, or cut your losses now and live a happier life where you're not being manipulated by a compulsive liar?

So aren't you tired of being treated like his mum?

It's interesting what you say about his first instinct is to lie, and to say you are not his mother. I lived with a man who lied for 16 years. He had a poor relationship with his mother and eventually after many years it came out that his parents had made him feel guilty and inferiority. He only lied about one thing. And that one thing had been something he had caught his father doing too, and this one thing was linked to his feelings of guilt. He simply reproduced the feeling of guilt because he felt safe with it.

I agree with you that it’s unlikely he’s having an affair. He’s lying but not really trying to hide - his phone is open to you etc. However, he clearly lies all the time. For no reason that makes sense to you. And I suspect he lies about a lot more than just silly little social plans.

More
Worryingly, I suspect he will lie about bigger things down the line. If he loses his job, will he have the courage to tell you? If he stupidly spends money on some crazy things, dipping into money put aside for something else, will he tell you? If he prangs the car in a silly accident, will he be honest?

My mother tended to lie a lot. Mostly about small stupid things that were easy to
Catch her out. I eventually came
To the conclusion that she, stupidly, told
All those
Lies because she wanted to make life easier in that moment. So she didn’t want to confess to something, even if it coming out later would only make it worse. Often, she lied to avoid arguments or even just mild expressions of irritation from people. Often it was in her head. No one cared about whatever she was lying about. Your dh sounds like her.

The difference, and the reason it never really bothered my dad, is that the things she lied about where so silly and obvious. He just ignored her. In your case, the lies are a bit more significant and I don’t blame you for wanting to deal with it. I would be telling him to get therapy ASAP.

I'd be leaving. He will never change.
I have no idea why she'd wait around the corner. How would she know to do that?

How many friends would you be talking about?

I'd worry that he didn't trust you enough to be honest with you.

Having thought about this more, I realise it's something which doesn't necessarily have to always be this way. How long have you been together in total? (Sorry if I missed this) Whn my dh and I got together he would lie about everything (including silly little things). It caused big problems for the first couple of years. He was brought up in and out of children's homes and foster care and by a mother that abused him. I reconciled myself to the fact that he had to learn trust himself and it was his trust in me that was the issue. He had to know I wasn't going to leave him over anything or judge him harshly over things that he said or did. My trusting him wasn't the problem. We worked hard. I developed understanding and empathy and nearly 20 years on, we are incredibly happy and secure and I don't believe he lies to me about silly things. I trust him and he trusts me. We are stable. I wonder if there is something like this going on in your relationship. If so, it's entirely worth working at and I wish you all the best.

My ex would also tell stupid lies to avoid conflict. It was really disrespectful. He had grown up that way due to a controlling mother. Is there anything like this going on with your husband?

I understand why you don't want to break up the whole relationship over it. But it's a big niggle to ignore.

If he really did think of these female friends in a platonic way, his reaction would not be so guilty. He may not be sleeping with them now - but there but there may be some attraction or history there. Has he been completely honest with you about his past relationships with them?

A long time ago, a friend of mine had a boyfriend with several close female friends. It emerged slowly that he had slept with most of them at some point - before he had met her, but there was still a history. It left her feeling very uncomfortable as he wasn't upfront about it and he was only gradually honest about it. She never fully trusted him again.

Gosh it sounds like he is a pathological liar. Youll never be able to know whether you can trust him or not. never know whether he is keeping something from you.

I like how he doesn't tell you because he thinks you'll have a problem with it, but still goes anyway. He doesn't sound like he has much respect for you and just uses the "oh I thought you would kick off" excuse to keep you quiet. really immature and untrustworthy man

STBExH used to do this too. I thought you wouldn't like it. Why? If nothing is going on. That then escalated to 'You're so paranoid, that's why I lie'

Eventually caught out with a woman at the house. "See this is why I lie, because you're angry. Okay, she did kiss me and I didn't tell you because you'd be angry. I'm going out alone with her tonight, that's okay isn't it? You can't be annoyed. You can't say no. It's unreasonable. You're the reason I lie, because then I can do what I want without you moaning." (I never did)

Then of course by being relaxed about things was justification for cheating. I didn't care enough. No winning. You are the bad guy.

If you aren't going to leave him you need to make sure you aren't just being set up as the justification for straying. Be smart.

Don’t make excuses for him. It minimises the problem which is that he is full of shit.

I agree with the wise poster upthread, it messes with your mind.

Honestly not a stealth boast but I have never ever worried about where my DH is because he voluntarily tells me where he is - it’s part of the relationship to not leave the other person guessing what the hell’s going on.

where he is and who he’s with

We've been together now nearly 5 years and married just over 2 so these lying instances are happening I'd say once or twice a year but they cause a huge row when they do because even though they may be far apart, I just think god he's still doing it.

I think a part of it could be due to a crap relationship with a controlling mother who used to tell the siblings off for every little thing all the time hence they used to hide even the basic stuff. But I'm not his mother, nor have I ever treated him like his mother. He's a grown man free to have whichever friends he wants. I would also be reacting the same way if it was a male friend he was hiding. I have an issue with the lies, not the friends.

OP, you have asked for advice and opinions. Don't ignore them. Think long and hard about his moral compass and how easily he lies to you. This is no way to live