Am I wrong to trust/not trust DH?

[HouseStarkfortheWin]

A little long but please stick with me.

I've been married to DH for a little over 2 years. When we were just going out, he never did anything major to make me distrust him per se. A little after we got engaged, for some stupid reason he felt that he no longer could have the same relationship with some of his female friends.

He used to make plans with these female friends and not tell me. Of course I always found out, as he's a crap liar. So the distrust started. What was the need to lie about simply going to the cinema or for a meal with female friends?

His ex girlfriend was invited to his best mates wedding. I wasn't invited. He didn't tell me his exGF would be there. Wouldn't have cared either way as I've never met her and she doesn't bother me. I found out after seeing all these group pictures where they'd all posed happily together. The issue I raised with him was not that she was present but the fact that he had left this information out. He said he thought I would have an issue with it so purposefully didn't tell me.
A few things like his kept happening but I felt like I just had to get over it.

I once saw a message on his phone from a female friend who was waiting around the corner from our house waiting for me to leave so she could come over! When I questioned him about it, he didn't tell me she was coming over as he thought I would have an issue with it and then it made sense as to why he had been trying to usher me out of the house the day before!

Yesterday was DH's birthday and we were out for tea. On the way there in the car his phone rang and it came up on the screen thing in the middle. It was an ex female colleague of DHs. He didn't answer and declined the call. My reason for being upset with him was, why didn't he just simply answer the call? Why decline it and act like he didn't know why she was calling? I'm assuming she was just calling him to wish him a happy birthday and obviously no issue with that. It just annoyed me he declined the call. He said he wrongly assumed I would have a problem with it. Even though we've had the same argument time and time again and I've made it clear him having female friends doesn't bother me.

A few months before this he was having his leaving meal with work he was going straight after his last work shift. Just in casual conversation I asked if he would be driving there by himself or if he would have company for the drive. He said no he's the only one working that particular shift so meeting everyone there. Imagine my surprise when that night his phone buzzes with a message from same female colleague as above with the words 'Thanks for today's lift to the restaurant!'.
He thought I would have an issue with the fact that a girl was in his car so lied to me and obviously his lie got caught out once again.

Now my issue is, I have never ever had any issue with DH having female friends and spending time with them. I myself have male friends who I meet up with, with and without DH.

I don't understand why he lies to me. I feel like I can no longer trust him as I never know when he will be telling the truth about the little things. He constantly tells little white lies which are just so transparent and he always gets caught out.

Am I wrong to trust him? Will I ever be able to fully trust him?

Oh God, what a horrible man! That's just so awful for you. I'm afraid that he didn't want a partner; he wanted a housemaid, cook and cleaner. You're meant to be never seen or heard from.

I've met his female friends, they came to our wedding or I've met them some other way, so it's not like he's trying to keep them all secret and keep me hidden away from them.

In his warped mind how he explained it to me once is, as he was now getting married he didn't think it was ok going to the cinema with female friends or out to eat with them as much as he was doing. It was ok when he had our own lives but he thought being married meant more of being a unit. But he couldn't tell his female friends this and they were still inviting him out and softie that he is was still agreeing but feeling conflicted and that's loosely how the lies started.

His explanations really don't matter. Except they make him sound truly pathetic. If he thinks it's not ok he shouldn't be doing it.

Yes, I think pathetic is the word. That's how I see it now

as he was now getting married he didn't think it was ok going to the cinema with female friends or out to eat with them as much as he was doing. It was ok when he had our own lives but he thought being married meant more of being a unit. But he couldn't tell his female friends this and they were still inviting him out and softie that he is was still agreeing but feeling conflicted and that's loosely how the lies started.

Oh gosh it must be terrible for him. So conflicted.

The answer is definitely to lie to you and still continue to see other women, yes - he's cracked it. And then blame you for having issues with it. So it is all your fault - win/win.

Who knows is he is boning one or all of them? Does it matter? He is lying to you and seeing other women behind your back. If this is ok with you then crack on. If not, you need to decide whether it is a dealbreaker or not.

He is just full of shit.

He's not cheating, I would honestly bet my life on it. He's too much of a scaredy cat to cheat.
This is all stupid pathetic little stuff because he can't man up and say no to stuff.

I have felt a little more shit than usual about it to be fair. I think I'm going to text my sister and ask her what she thinks as up until last night when I posted this I hadn't told another soul.

I'm just worried about the fallout from divorce within our families. We're from similar social circles and our or atleast our parents paths would cross and it makes me feel awkward and uneasy.

He's not cheating, I would honestly bet my life on it. He's too much of a scaredy cat to cheat.

Oh come on. Everyone thinks that until they find out they were indeed cheating the whole fucking time.

We're from similar social circles and our or atleast our parents paths would cross and it makes me feel awkward and uneasy.

So you would spend the rest of your life with someone who regularly sees other women behind your back, to stop awkwardness for your parents?

Goodness me.

The lying to you is bad enough (and a dealbreaker for most people), but wtf is he telling his friends that they'll wait on street corners til you've left? I'd really not be able to trust someone who through his own desire to avoid conflict, would lie to his friends and make me look insecure or controlling. Fuck that.

So he's too moral and old-fashioned to have friendships with women now he's married, but he's too soft to end said friendships, so the choice this moral and old-fashioned man makes is to lie repeatedly to his wife?

Also, his female friends clearly know he's not "allowed" to be friends with them given the hanging around waiting for you to leave the house so I'd put every penny I have on this lovely moral man lying about you to them as well.

You deserve better. Even if he's not cheating you deserve better.

@AlternativeTentacle he's not seeing other women. And when he does see female friends which is now a rare occurrence I have no issue with it. Friends are friends, whether they are male or female. My issue with him is not that he sees these female friends but his lies around it.

Of course I'm going to be conflicted, the social circles thing is just one example of how I'm thinking things would turn out. I vowed forever and to think that just 2 years later my marriage could be ending. For me this is not an easy decision to make, sorry to the rest of you who are much stronger than me.

My DH does the same pointless little lies though not about women. He lies about alcohol consumption and has lied about staying at hotels because he's drank too much, lies about smoking, lies about where he went after work (drinking!). It drives me crazy. He also claims it's to avoid upsetting me and gets upset. I've pointed out the lying is what upsets me, over and over again. I don't give a flying fuck if he stays after work for a few drinks on Friday, it's rare and he deserves to enjoy some time off from work and DC just as I do!

5 years in he hasn't changed but we have DC now and I'm not leaving.

So, your DH is very very unlikely to change at all. Think seriously about that.

The one option left is to radically change your behaviour, since you can't change his. Take back control of yourself and initiate, rather than react.

If it were me I would get hold of these multiple female friends and invite them all round to the house to hang out with DH and I as a couple. DH then would have nowhere to hide. His reaction will speak volumes. He won't be able to pretend he's protecting your feelings any longer.

Maybe you can work your way down the list in alphabetical order, have them all round for dinner one by one over a few weeks.

Time for shock tactics OP, because the marriage is dead in the water at this point.

If all other aspects of your relationship is good please consider relationship counselling before throwing the towel in.

We all carry baggage with us from our past, it doesn't make us bad people, just flawed. I don't think he is a pathological liar, I think he has developed a pattern of conflict resolution that is unhealthy. He just needs help in understanding that the problem is the lies and not the gender of the person he is friends with.

Op i dated someone like this. It messes with your mind so badly that you become this insecure, jealous person when you really aren't like that. This man loves the ladies, he likes the attention, the flirting and I can tell you he will be crossing the line with them but he will somehow convince you that its you with the problem.

My issue with him is not that he sees these female friends but his lies around it

Yes, this is called 'seeing other women behind your back'.

And it being your issue when he does it.

OP you say These occurrences are few and far between
No - the times when you catch him lying are few and far between. I'm damn sure he is doing it much more often and not being caught.

This is a man who does exactly as he pleases, and if it's something he thinks you won't like - his answer is to just lie to you. Are you really ready to spend you life with somebody like that?
At the very least, you need counselling - if he won't agree to that then it's time to go your own way and find someone who can behave like a adult, not a lying teenager.

My abusive ex used to do this. It meant I could never get upset about anything, question anything or else I was living up to his “I didn’t tell you because you’d get upset”. .. and he’d throw the “I knew you’d get upset” type of line back at me. I couldn’t win. I had to either accept being lied to or have a “I told you so” argument thrown at me. He was also cheating obv.

I wonder if your OH has painted you out to be jealous to his female friends, hence why she was waiting around the corner.

He knows you don’t have an issue with it yet he keeps telling you that he thought you would.... gaslighting much?!

I've known a few people (usually men) who are so conflict averse that they lie even when it makes the situation worse. Stupid things. Things like 'will you do this' answer 'yes I will' - even though it later transpires that there was not a hope in hell of being able to do it.
It's a most unhelpful personality trait and the only solution I can think of is counselling. May seem extreme, I know pp think he's cheating, but having seen this a few times I can say that it doesn't have to be.

He is also lying to them about you. Don't you mind?

I'd also wonder wtf he's telling these friends to make them hide round the corner till you go - and what's in it for them that they'd accept it. Cheating or not, he's a liar and he is making you out to be the unreasonable one. He's putting thoughts in your head and words in your mouth and telling you you're unreasonable. He's telling you he's a victim, as he's only lying because he's too chivalrous to be honest about his friends. I agree with pp - you're only catching him lying infrequently, who knows how many lies he's actually telling.

It would be a dealbreaker for me that he's lying and manipulating like this but obviously it can't be easy breaking up a marriage.

One sure way of hiding anything is in plain sight. One very sure way of hiding it's true character is to get a consensus about what it is. One sure way of cooking your head is to be gaslighted. He is manipulative. All liars are. No, not pathetic. Actually quite clever.

If you share a social circle those people in it will eventually share his perspective of you. You are looking duped, because you are being duped. I'd find it very hard to socialise with people who shared his opinion of me as a suspicious jealous women eaten up with paranoia, or as a naive fool.

I would be very angry that he is making you sound like a jealous unhinged loon to every woman he interacts with. Have you told him how insulting you find that?

Very suspicious op.
Hiding round the corner? Why are his friends doing that? What's he telling them?
I know you say you don't think he's cheated but it sounds plausible:

And what kind of women are these? Hiding around the corner, knowingly taking part in this deception? I have male friends, but I wouldn't be meeting up with them if I knew our meetings were being kept secret from their wives / girfriends. But then again, I wouldn't be meeting a guy for cosy one-on-one meetings unless I was dating them or thinking about doing so. (As Daisy said, mumsnet's "cool" attitude to male / female friendships is somewhat weird...)