did toddlers have tantrums 50 years ago?

[ClaraBowWasSoLovely]

Apologies - I bunged this in 'somewhere' yesterday due to computer illiteracy.
My children are in their forties and I don't remember any tantrums, no screaming, flailing, writhing on the floor (my marbles are intact).
I was 18 with my first, so was making it up as I went along.
Perhaps the world was quieter, calmer. We left our children outside shops!
No long distance travel.
Apparently (thanks, Google) other cultures don't experience toddler meltdowns. A writer asserted that the 'terrible twos' doesn't exist.
I'm ancient now, so no little ones of my own.
What do you older parents/grandparents think?

This idea that all adults were uniformly cruel to children before, say, 1985, is garbage.

I don't think it is. I think parenting in geveral was a LOT harsher. I also speak as an older sibling who became responsible for my sibling when she was two and I was seven. From 9 onwards I provided ALL child care when my Mum was at work and before and after school too.

You cannot be serious.

Do you think you were uniformly cruel to your younger siblings when you were in loco parentis?

Yes I am serious. Why are you being so aggressive in your responses?

Yes I was pretty shit to her actually, what with being a nine year old brought up in a home where smacks were the default discipline.

Well I am 55 and I don't think I tantrummed but by all accounts one of my older sisters (now in her 60s) was prone to stamping her foot and throwing a bit of a paddy!

However I think
They were often left in the care of older siblings, physically punished and left to cry
is a gross generalization. I was sometimes left with older siblings (my eldest sister was ten years older than me and a brilliant big sister ) but I honestly don't ever remember being smacked or left to cry.

My Mum always claims my brother and I never had tantrums - I'm 43, my brother is 38

I distinctly remember my brother throwing a far more spectacular tantrum than either of my kids have ever managed one Saturday morning in the bakers as they'd run out of those marshmallow ice cream cones with sprinkles on. Full on, throwing yourself on the floor stylee.

My Mum picked him up under her arm and marched out

Apparently we werent allowed tantrums inthe 50's in our house. They were swiftly interrupted by smacks.
I dont subscribe to that parenting style by the way but it did make me and my sister too scared to do it again! Very harsh regime my mother presided over.

You'd get a slap in the arse if you did!

I don't think all parents were intentionally cruel or shit or neglectful in the past, it was just a different attitude! I remember my grandad (he's 93) having a bit of a moment a few months ago where he was worried about DS being stuck in the car for too long for a long journey. And DM said " but you never worried about us on long journeys as children". And he softened and said that he'd never really thought about it in that way then but it was different now. DM was astounded because she remembers him being totally intolerant of any kind of distress - it just wasn't allowed unless something really terrible had happened like a bad injury or somebody dying.

Children were expected to be more self sufficient and independent - not a bad thing IMO - but that often went along with being responsible for their own behaviour/emotions much earlier than is expected today, which perhaps is. And from what my grandad was saying, it was almost like he hadn't really considered the fact that children might be anxious or frustrated or confused, stressed, or overwhelmed - it was just very simple - children were behaving well or they were behaving badly and you acted accordingly. We're much more aware now that children's feelings are important and tend to feed into their behaviour, and also that how we manage their emotions will have a big effect on their mental health and ability to be resilient and empathetic in later life. Previous generations weren't really so hot on mental health and developing empathy were they? It just wasn't really a thing that was on the radar for most people/parents. And the idea at the time of building resilience was more to avoid any expression of distress and say stop making a fuss, get on with it.

I think that adults who actually listened to children and let their feelings be important were quite rare indeed - I remember being struck by this in The Railway Children where the children praise their mother for being one of those rare adults and at one point there's a line something like "Did you ever hear another grown up apologise for getting cross?" I think that would have been a very rare thing because it would have been seen as undermining whatever reason you got cross in the first place, whereas today it's quite standard advice if you feel like you've overreacted and is thought to be a good model to show children how they can apologise if they make a mistake.

Great post Bertie.

My mum was always right even when she was health wrong. And she neber said sorry.

This is definitely a time where "always" and "never" are not an exaggeration.

It was weakness to admit fault as a parent then. Kids just had to suck up whatever parents felt like dishing out at the time, emotional wellbeing was not on their radar. I had a fairly traumatic event as a child and it was barely mentioned in my family, even though it caused me some confusion, distress and at times embarrassment due to lack of knowing what to say to questions asked. I wasn't helped with that side of things and I certainly wasn't allowed to moan about it.

*clearly wrong. Ugh auto correct!!!

I'm 40 soon and I remember an epic tantrum I had in Tesco because I wanted a ballerina barbie. I smashed a large glass jar of golden syrup in the middle of the shop.
I was frogmarched out by my mother!

My mother also says this.

'Oh you and your brother were never like that'

Yeah, right.

I'm from a different culture and the kids back home certainly tantrum! We just lack a handy, specific word to describe it.

Don't know about 50 years ago, but my mum said I only tried tantruming a couple of times after copying other kids, but when she ignored them by walking off I soon stopped.

I like to say my DS had his first tantrum at 4 months and he is definitely more fiery than I was.

Probably also because my mum was overly strict even by that age's standards- which she admits!

MIL reckons kids from her country don't have tantrums. It's because mothers are 'strong' where she's from (I have to hear this a lot - she basically thinks it's fine to beat seven shades out of children for the smallest misdemeanour, and says me not doing this makes me a bit soft and crap).

Last time we were there, we saw a small boy screaming his heart out on a cafe floor. Kicking, crying, the works. I had to smile. I mentioned it to her later and she said she hadn't noticed!

I assume toddlers have always had tantrums but were unlikely to have been pandered to back in the old days. I would love to transport some of the 'free spirits' little monsters of today back to when I was a young child in the late 1940s. I should think not being plugged into an ipad as soon as they were sat in a restaurant but instead were expected to sit still and actually have a conversation with others at the table would be enough to make them faint clean away.

I assume toddlers have always had tantrums but were unlikely to have been pandered to back in the old days. I would love to transport some of the 'free spirits' little monsters of today back to when I was a young child in the late 1940s. I should think not being plugged into an ipad as soon as they were sat in a restaurant but instead were expected to sit still and actually have a conversation with others at the table would be enough to make them faint clean away.

My nan would call it pandering. I call it empathising. It's unreasonable to expect "good behaviour" by adult standards in a restaurant from a toddler. On the rare occasion we've dared take DS out for a meal and he's started "tantruming", we haven't told him off. He's already upset, why upset him further? He won't understand why mum and dad are suddenly cross with him. He can say five words so can't "have a conversation" with us to tell us what's wrong. He could be teething, tired, under the weather or simply bored but can't express it. I'd be frustrated too if I were him. Expecting him to handle his frustration in an adult way is ridiculous. Aged two he hasn't got the ability to put his frustrations aside and converse with us in a civilised way over dinner! We try distraction of a cartoon on silent/colouring/a few play blocks/book/ whatever's to hand, failing that remove him from the table.

To be honest, speech delay and table manners aside, I'm in awe of the other things he's learned in his short 24 months of life, so yes I cut him a bit of slack on restaurant etiquette right now. I appreciate some would disagree though. My nan still thinks I should "beat it out of him".

tantrum = "i'll give you a good reason to cry" followed by a firm spanking and swift escort to an empty room with the door shut.
1983 recommendation for tantrums included throwing ice water on the child mid tantrum, totally impracticable to keep the ice water in the full family fridge and to clean up following.

Hmm. Well, my elder sister is in her sixties and my mother (now in her 90s) often says that she's amazed that she ever had me, as my sister was such hard work and had terrible screaming tantrums that were enough to put anyone off having children!

I assume toddlers have always had tantrums but were unlikely to have been pandered to back in the old days. I would love to transport some of the 'free spirits' little monsters of today back to when I was a young child in the late 1940s. I should think not being plugged into an ipad as soon as they were sat in a restaurant but instead were expected to sit still and actually have a conversation with others at the table would be enough to make them faint clean away.

My DD is not “pandered to”! I try to understand why she is upset and then fix it if I can, or comfort her if I can’t. Distraction is also a great technique for changing her mind when she wants something she can’t have. She wants to play on my phone but I won’t let her? I get down on the floor and set up her farm for her and we play with that. Tantrum over. She hasn’t won. If anyone dared suggest to me that she needs beating, I wouldn’t be able to contain myself.

My DP used to be hit with objects as a child. I would say he and his siblings were always far worse in their behaviour than me and my sister based on the stories I’ve heard.

My friend's daughter is nearly 40 and had the most epic tantrums that we still laugh about now !

My mum (in her 60s) insists I never had tantrums, but admits that hers were so epic an (admittedly anxious and nervous type) aunt once called the priest out to have her exorcised.

When I was married, I remember DSD having the most spectacular tantrum at my grannie’s. She was absolutely exhausted and only 2, I’d been working the night before so she’d had her dad all night and she just dissolved. My grannie showed me how to placate a tantrumming toddler telling me that it had worked with my mum and uncle and also me and my brother. Uncle is nearly 70 now, Mum would be 66 if she’d lived, so yes.

I could regurgitate family stories of 4 generations of tantrumers in my family.

Some children tantrum more than others. I don't believe in the Terrible Twos... DS1 started at 10 months and is still going strong 6 years later Admittedly he was his worst 18m to 3.5. These days he's sent up to his room to calm down and told to come down when he's ready.

I had many sympathetic looks, smiles and comments (mainly from older people) as he thrashed around polishing the supermarket floor, particularly in the days when I was visibly pregnant with DS2.
DS2 is not a commited tantrumer. He's far less serious than his brother and never saw him achieve much out of them.

Tiredness is definitely a factor for DS1 and I wonder if the modern world creates more opportunities for tantrums. There is more sensory stimulation, so something like buying food has tempations like, the comic/ toy aisle

My dd is 43 now and she had the worst tantrums I have ever see. We certainly knew all about "the terrible twos". My ds now 47 was a very 'good' child but he always lacked the confidence of his sister.