To think Catalonia is being selfish

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

It seems to basically be about money, with some history mixed in.

But isn't that how most countries work - a small area makes a large part of the money and it's taxes are distributed across to beneif the whole country? That's how londom and the south east works and I've never heard anyone not like the arrangement.

We are now close to civil war in Europe and it could really derail the brexit process.

Sunnyjac
Good. The More brexit gets derailed the better!

I guess you can dream but there's no chance

It is part of democracy to demand a vote on separation. It is the role of good government to listen to its people. It ends where the people in different regions decide it ends. Good governments have to balance the views of different regions. Grant levels of autonomy and compromise that keep everyone as satisfied as possible. Bully boy tactics won't work, that will only heighten feelings of alienation from central government and solidarity within a region. Northern Ireland has peace now which is fragile and needs to be worked on all the time.

Zoll

No idea who you're quoting but it's not on this thread

How hilarious. It is from one of the polls you linked to. Didn't you read it?

Not extensively, as the literal only point I was making was that they exist, as I made clear to both in the comment I made and in my followup where I reiterated to you the limited nature of the point I was making. It's not a complicated point, or a controversial one. There were no secret other extra invisible arguments attached to the very simple and factual information I provided. But carry on demolishing the strawman you have created. It is a Saturday after all and one must have hobbies.

Goady fucker.

If Catalonia can't even vote (whether you agree with it or not) without being subjected to violence, how do you think the Catalan people feel most of the time?

Absolutely this. The practical problems for Catalonia declaring independence will be immense but I am appalled at Madrid's reaction to the referendum/survey/vote. It feels like Madrid is a grown child sponging off Mum and Dad, laying down rules in the family home and punching holes in the wall when they hear an opposing viewpoint.

Machismo, thuggery masquerading as politics.

Having lived in Catalonia for some years, I've heard all about Franco's oppression and how the Catalans view Madrid (that's why Barca and Real Madrid are such fierce rivals). This goes back a long long way and many Catalans have been brought up pro-independence.

I also think the Catalans are different to the rest of Spain. I have always felt that they are more like the British. They have our same sense of humour and natural reserve. They always said the most popular British TV programme in Catalonia was Monty Python, whereas in Spain it was Benny Hill.

That said, I do object to the idea that the whole of Catalonia is being selfish. I'd be horrified if I was included in a statement that the whole of the UK was being selfish in throwing the EU under a bus when I am still vehemently opposed to Brexit.

You are misinformed if you think nobody in Yorkshire has a problem with the fact that the Gov spends £190 per head on transport up here and £1,940 per head in London.

Is that a joke? Have you even been to London and seen the size of the transport network?

Im sure Yorkshire needs the same level of spending to maintain its buses.

A country can't be selfish.

Brexit will be derailed by the chaotic and unprecedentedly incompetent government attempting to oversee it .

Brexit is just as much about money as Catalonian independence - £350 million for the NHS, anyone?

Yesterday morning I had long chat with a Belgian lady who lived 12 yrs in Madrid, now living in Barcelona, strongly supports independence (I think). Barcelona is full of Catalan flags, btw, I can attest. Oh, and the taxi drivers are fed up with it.

The Belgian said Madrid /rest of Spain took Catalan independence as some kind of minor silly joke. That she was shocked that every Catalan she talks to feels fiercely pro-independent (from all walks of life), that the heavy handed police & central govt. tactics have only driven up ind. support ( The Economist is saying the same).

It's an emotional decision.
Brexit was an emotional decision.
D Trump was an emotional vote.
Hounding every person accused of sexual assault before result of a trial... another emotional decision.

So we live in an age when people want heart over logic. Emotions rule intellect. I HATE IT. So I can almost agree with OP about selfish.. but the OP's main concern seems to be Brexit which suggests OP's own selfish agenda.

Emotions Rule seems to be the age we live in, people like me get to suck it up.

There’s been a history of this in Spain, think back to the Basque separatist movement ETA. Obviously I’m not condoning the violence of that movement, any more than with the IRA, but Spain is not actually great at practising democracy. Franco’s influence is still strong, I think.