To think Catalonia is being selfish

[SupportTheresaElseBoris]

It seems to basically be about money, with some history mixed in.

But isn't that how most countries work - a small area makes a large part of the money and it's taxes are distributed across to beneif the whole country? That's how londom and the south east works and I've never heard anyone not like the arrangement.

We are now close to civil war in Europe and it could really derail the brexit process.

No wonder Britain has such a shit reputation if people look at what is happening in Catalonia and one of their main concerns is that it could derail Brexit.

Catalans don't see themselves as different - they ARE different.

If you are only going to listen to Spaniards' opinions, then yes you will not understand how the Catalans think and feel.

Catalans were crushed by Franco who only died in 1975. Madrid and Rajoy still think they are running a dictatorship.

The King of Spain did not apologize for the violence on Sunday - did not even mention it. Fucker.

Catalunya was allowed a vote in 2014, to which the president said 'no, actually it doesn't count' AFTER the fact. He could have done the same this year - but nooooo, he had to send in the thugs. Nice. He has just pushed the voters who were on the fence into the Si box. Well done.

Franco is still very much in living memory. People never thought they'd see police brutality on this scale again.

It’s not like civil war in Spain is a new thing

A non-legally binding referendum throwing a country into political and economic chaos - sound familiar?

We are now close to civil war in Europe and it could really derail the brexit process.

YABU - ah you must be an Independent fan - that arbiter of balanced reporting - not - and no, it will not derail Brexit, fortunately nothing will.

Would it be any different for an independent Scotland do you think, morningrunner?

Separatist movements in Spain and other countries are why it's likely that an independent Scotland would find it difficult to join the EU as it's thought that those countries won't want to encourage their own separatists.

YABU - the Catalans have always been the economic power-house of Spain. They wanted their independence pre The Spanish Civil War but Franco's win and subsequent regime put paid to that. It's always been bubbling away as a massive issue. Their time has come and really they deserve to gain independence.

Oh the irony...

Because Brexit wasn't about money at all (or those forriners).

I'd rather listen to spaniards opinion than all the people saying the Spanish government is running a dictatorship and franco is alive and well. You undermine any possible valid points with crap like that.

Its not part of democracy to just demand a vote for separation. Where would that all end? New York city and California independent? Independent London? independent Paris?

I agree with you, OP. A region deciding unilaterally to disengage from a greater union regardless of the consequences for others, that can't be right, desperately selfish, thoughtless and chauvinistic.

Oh.

YABU - the Catalans have always been the economic power-house of Spain.

That's just crap, there are two main cities in Spain and they are the powerhouse of the country. Just like in many other devloped countries with two main cities.

I used to work with a guy from Catalonia.
I remember him saying once that he used to think that Catalonia was really different from the rest of Spain, until he came to the UK. Then he realised what real difference was and no longer thought that Catalonia was that different after all.

I’m spanish as well , but completely in favour of this referendum. It’s not only about money as you define it. It’s also about feeling that we’re being manipulated by the governments and that our voices are never listened.

You can ask your bf as he’s from Andalucía why were the Andalucía laws accepted and not the estatut from 2010 which was basically really similar. This was quite annoying for Catalans seeing their laws being rejected by the Spanish government. Why are many laws cancelled in Catalonia (ie bullfighting) but they are allowed in other parts of the country (canarias)

Why doesn’t the Spanish government allow this referendum ? Cuz they’re afraid of a yes to independence coming out and they’d lose loads of money. Catalonia is one of the ones that puts more money in the big pot and where there is less unemployment. I thought it was Catalonians being selfish cuz of money by your comment but seems like Spain also is.

I’m not Catalonian but I’m from an area that has long suffered from Spanish repression so I completely support my Catalonian friends and the citizens.

It’s ashaminf that in 2017 our voices are forbidden and it’s more ashaming that many parts of Spain can’t see all this and are in favour of the ashaming police brutality from last week.

There is always two versions of the story.

But cities are different from regions. Cities have more movement from inside the country. I'd never support an independent London but I would say Catalan should be free to decide it's own fate.

Maybe a trial basis? Maybe the knowledge that it could be free would be enough. Maybe all distinct regions within countries are, to some extent, artificially created but they have a geographic and historical experience that does make them different from cities so comparing the two seems wrong.

The irony if out wanting freedom from the EU (not me personally) and yet not wanting freedom for Catalonia is not lost!

*Of not if out!

SupportTheresaElseBoris

There are not 2 main cities in Spain that are the engine of the country. I guess you’re referring to Madrid and Barcelona. However , the Basque Country which is another pro-independence area long before Franco is another big engine for Spain.

The difference is that while many areas relay on tourism and farming these areas have got a big industry

I'm not Spanish but I live in Spain and am married to a Spaniard. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I wouldn't support Catalan independence, but after the way the government has behaved I am totally unsurprised they want independence. And it is a very right-wing government, read up about the gag law among other things. Spain has no far-right political party and the reason for that is that they are all in the ruling party (PP), which was set up by ex Franco-era ministers.

Good. The More brexit gets derailed the better!

This is what I meant about Catalunya vs Andalucía and they main reason why pro independence people have gone from 10% in 2010 to nearly 50% in 2017
elpais.com/diario/2007/07/05/espana/1183586424_850215.html

I support Catalonia, these people are being oppressed by Madrid why shouldn’t we support them, using force to stop democracy is wrong ffs it is 2017 not 1817.

I'd rather listen to spaniards opinion than all the people saying the Spanish government is running a dictatorship and franco is alive and well.

That's like going back 100 years and saying you'd rather listen to English people's opinions about colonialism rather than someone who had an educated overview of the abuses being committed in Ireland, India, Pakistan, Zambia, etc. You'd be getting an extremely one sided message.

With the utmost respect OP - blow it out your arse!

The fact that one of your main concerns seems to be about derailing the train wreck that is Brexit rather than about people getting beaten up in the street by police in a supposedly democratic country means you aren't worth engaging with.