More of a wwyd?

[Happylandbaby]

On the face of it my in laws are lovely. They have good intentions, are kind, generous, try to be helpful. I’ve always got on well with them.

It’s been difficult since my dd (now a toddler) came along, I just don’t trust them with her.

I’ve tried to be relaxed and let them take her here and there as they have wanted to, but almost every time there has been something.

For example; taking her away for the night and admitting they left her sleeping in hotel room while they went for drinks in the bar. Me walking in and finding her in the kitchen alone with oven on, pans bubbling away on hobs, and dd playing in the knife and fork drawer, with in laws oblivious. Letting her play on the stairs and her falling partway down the stairs. Sitting her on a kitchen stool and her falling off.

These are only a few examples, there are so many others.

My husband has spoken with them numerous times and asked them not to do this or that. I think they see it that they’ve brought up 3 children and know what they are doing. They’ll agree not to do one thing then something else happens.

It’s got to the point I just feel I can’t trust them at all. I’m not perfect and I make mistakes, toddlers hurt themselves, but I trust my instincts and try not to put dd in dangerous situations.

Easy answer is to not have them babysit, but they constantly ask and are hurt when we say no. Plus dh doesn’t 100% back me up and creates situations where I’m put on the spot.

Wwyd?

I have no idea what dh thinks. Our conversation usually goes in circles.

Me saying I’m not comfortable with his mum and dad looking after dd. Him saying he will tell them not to do x’ y and z and then it will be ok. Me stating that they’ve never listened before so why should I believe they’ll start now. He then says it’s fine and we won’t have them babysit. Then somehow he forgets.

I’ve no idea why dh is happy with it all, only that they’re his mum and dad and I guess he trusts his own mum and dad against all the evidence.

To be honest this thread is only the tip of the iceberg of the stupid things they’ve done and I’ve doubted my own judgement so from now on I’m just going to have to say no more.

There's no doubt that parenting norms have changed a great deal in only 1 or 2 generations. It's hard to put a finger on why it was ok then but not now, but it's true. Whatever they think is 'right', 'good enough' or 'how we used to do it' is now not relevant.

And seriously, if they know you have anxiety and they purport to care about you, why would they default to their way? Has anyone every been cured of anxiety by being constantly pushed to greater anxiety? No they haven't.

I'd be telling them that directly and honestly. And letting them know that babysitting is off the table until she is older (and more resilient). Partly for her physical safety, and partly for your mental health safety.

Let them know that if they were to sign up to grandparenting courses (which are aimed at exactly this scenario) they would likely be horrified at how things have changed, and even admiring of how laid-back and accepting you've been. Xx

Its never ever been right to leave small children alone with boiling pots and pans and a knife drawer.

Forget them all op, have faith in your own power - capacity and judgement, They are not capable to make this call anymore, incl dh.

To be honest I can’t see it getting any better when she’s older.

They were happily leaving dh and his siblings alone all day at 9, 7 and 5 during the holidays while they went off to work, with lists of jobs such as cutting the grass.

Happy is it any wonder you feel anxious this sounds awful.

Just say no, your allowed to and you should for your child, no more quibbling, wrangling, talking, just a plain NO.

No, no, no, not right. I'm a gran, and I get the grandkids sometimes, and I wouldn't do any of those things. Alone in kitchen with pans on? Alone in a hotel room while I'm in the bar? No. NO!!!!

Sack'em off child duty. They can visit and be as lovely as they like, but not be given the responsibility for your most precious child.

Show your DH the thread.

Ask him how he's going to feel when his parents kill or injure one of your children through neglect.

You're not overreacting or being overly cautious OP. Just say NO!
Your DD is too precious to be put at risk in this way.
Don't leave her with them until she's a lot older. Some adults just don't get that accidents can usually be prevented by using your common sense.

I would not leave them alone with the children. And I would overrule my partner saying that they're my children too and I get the final say. You know those things are dangerous and they have shown no sign that they agree and are willing to change.

Even if you were being over anxious (I don't think you are!) you should stand your ground.

It will either be them getting a little bit offended or you being extremely upset and worried while they are taking care of your dd.

It's took me years of being able to stand up for myself and actually say 'no' to being guilt tripped into putting myself and kids into situations I'm not happy with.

Your dh should be supportive of the decision you make.

There's no doubt that parenting norms have changed a great deal in only 1 or 2 generations. It's hard to put a finger on why it was ok then but not now, but it's true. Whatever they think is 'right', 'good enough' or 'how we used to do it' is now not relevant.

sorry but this is not true.
there are some things which have changed, eg what is acceptable when playing out.
But my parents are late 70s. It was never acceptable to leave small child in hotel room without supervision (should have heard my mum when Madeleine McCan was in the news)
It was never acceptable to leave small child with pans on hob etc.

They were happily leaving dh and his siblings alone all day at 9, 7 and 5 during the holidays while they went off to work, with lists of jobs such as cutting the grass.

why don't you start here with dh. ask him what it felt like. Did it ever go wrong. Did they ever have an accident. What did they get up to that their parents didn't know.

How did the youngets feel about being without mum or dad all day.

It might start him thinking about their parenting and its implications

I'd tell them they're welcome to visit your dd or that you'll visit them, but I'd never trust them to look after her. I think you've been more than reasonable.

Has your dh only ever had 2 siblings or has he been told to never mention the 3 that died of accidental deaths?!
Tel you dh that going out is off the agenda until proper babysitters are found. .

I think more than anything it is not the situations that is truly the problem but rather their JUDGEMENT and that is scary.

The hotel thing is a deal breaker for me.

Dh feels he had a good childhood. He agrees now that it probably wasn’t ideal leaving them alone but as he had a happy and loving childhood I guess it’s hard for him to imagine if something went wrong.

To be honest dh has a very blasé attitude to safety, imo. But I think his instincts have kicked in with dd as he’s never done anything to make me worry.

Argh, it’s so difficult with in laws, I know dds safety must come first but I don’t want to say things that can’t be unsaid. As pp did they have very poor judgement but their intentions aren’t bad, and they are

For example; taking her away for the night and admitting they left her sleeping in hotel room while they went for drinks in the bar. Me walking in and finding her in the kitchen alone with oven on, pans bubbling away on hobs, and dd playing in the knife and fork drawer, with in laws oblivious. Letting her play on the stairs and her falling partway down the stairs. Sitting her on a kitchen stool and her falling off.

These are enough (the hotel one alone is enough - that is shocking and no, people didn't all parent like that back in the day) to not let them babysit again. I wouldn't let them see her without supervision until she is old enough to mind herself. Just tell your dh that the safety of your child trumps their feelings and that is that. You can still be nice to them, have them over, visit, they just don't get to put your dd in danger (because they did).

Yeah, dh survived - but they were younger then.Anyway, his upbringing wasn't your responsibility. Your dd is your responsibility. I don't see why you need to say things that can't be unsaid - just dodge the babysitting/leaving her alone with them.

They wouldn’t be looking after my child alone at any time of day. If that means an argument with DH/them every time then so be it.

Benign neglect. But neglect nonetheless.

I'd say it's worse if they have her during the day as there's more scope for accidents as she'll be wandering about.
The kitchen incident would have done it for me.

Show your dh a picture of a child that's been scalded by boiling water.

"I don’t want to say things that can’t be unsaid."

If you don't mind me saying, I think this is part of your problem.

You're confusing assertiveness with aggressiveness. You can deal with this in a way that is the former, not the latter. You don't have to say anything you come to regret later.

I’m not great at being assertive. I tend to get flustered and either get upset, over explain, or get angry.

How can I avoid them having her without insulting them? Or perhaps it’s best to use avoidance and make excuses.

If I found out someone had left my baby/young child alone in a hotel room they'd be out of mine and my child's life forever.

How can I avoid them having her without insulting them? Or perhaps it’s best to use avoidance and make excuses
Who cares if they're insulted. They're certainly not worried about how you and/or DC are feeling when they indulge in their acts of gross negligence, so I certainly wouldn't be worrying about THEIR feelings.

I'd tell them the truth - you can't be trusted to look after DC properly, so you're not having her at all.

I thought you were going to say something like they let your DD eat too much ice cream or she stayed up 2 hours past her normal bedtime. The examples you've given though are way off that scale. Both scenarios are things that have put your child at risk. If they can't see that then I'm afraid they probably won't ever see it. I wouldn't allow them to be with a child of mine without being there myself.

YANBU, but really it is best to be clear and straightforward, excuses won't work. Just say they can't have DD unsupervised because of what happened.
If they tell you they had 3 kids and all was fine, you need to say that you parent differently and you are entitled to choose for your DD,
It is not your job to keep them happy, they should respect your way of parenting.

It's ok if you get flustered or upset. It's not ok for them to mock your anger or distress, or to dismiss it. You're allowed to feel angry if your child has been put at risk.

I was at school with a boy whose whole right arm had been badly scalded when he was a small child. Kitchens can be extremely dangerous (I think that part of your story bothered me even more than the hotel part).

Your DH needs to step up. If he doesn't see the need, he should accept that you see the need. You're not being unreasonable or PFB here.