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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be so fucking angry

30 replies

Bonosglasses · 02/10/2017 18:33

DH has worked for the same employer for 34 years. He's slowly worked his way up to just below management level but can't get any further. Can't go into too much detail as it would be outing but he was personally responsible for the development and running of a huge project which now employs 30+ people to do the job he did on his own for nearly a year.

He went for an interview about five weeks ago for a promotion and yet again didn't get it. Only found out today.

This keeps happening. He's moe than capable of the jobs he is applying for but it seems his face doesn't fit.

I'm so annoyed on his behalf. Just need to rant.

😡😡😡

OP posts:
ILoveMillhousesDad · 02/10/2017 18:36

That's shit. 34 years of loyalty and proving his worth and he is still not management.

Would he consider looking elsewhere?

AdelindSchade · 02/10/2017 18:38

I'm sorry op and for dh Flowers

Original poster
Bonosglasses · 02/10/2017 18:39

No, he won't look elsewhere. He says he's been there too long now. It's just so frustrating when you see how hard he works and they just don't care. Grrrrr

OP posts:
AdelindSchade · 02/10/2017 18:39

What feedback did the give him?

Original poster
Bonosglasses · 02/10/2017 18:41

He's got to arrange a meeting with his manager for the feedback. Though it's anyone's guess when or if that'll ever happen

OP posts:
SquidgeyMidgey · 02/10/2017 18:42

It's similar for some on my dh's company. They think they know he won't leave so will have to promote someone else who might leave. Its harsh but he has the choice to accept it, or leave.

Gorgosparta · 02/10/2017 18:43

I am Sorry he didnt get the job.

However it may not be that his face doesnt fit. Plenty of people are great at their jobs, but also wouldnt make great managers.

He should however been told this a long time ago so he can work on it. If that is the case.

seasidesally · 02/10/2017 18:43

there must of been a reason,did he ask?

Original poster
Bonosglasses · 02/10/2017 18:47

He'll find out the reasons why he didn't hit the 'benchmark score' when he has his feedback meeting.

OP posts:
BossyBitch · 02/10/2017 19:04

He's either doing something wrong, unsuitable for what he wants or he's not being demanding enough. And, yes, I know what I'm talking about - I've had three promotions in the last four years.

I can't possibly tell you which one it is just from your description - but, speaking as someone who actually does participate in promotion decisions, here's the iron rule: Being the best at job X does not make you the best candidate for manager of X. Turns out that, quite often at least, the qualities that make good workers aren't quite the same as the ones that make good leaders.

This is actually quite obvious once it's pointed out, but is something a lot of my co-workers do not understand at all until it's explained. What I'm looking for in a manager is roughly the following:

  • A good understanding of the big picture (as opposed to operational detail)
  • A somewhat deeper knowledge of their part of the business
  • Strong social and communication skills
  • A decent grasp on commercials (i.e. how does this firm make money and what is my team's role in this?)
  • Nerves of carbon
  • A strong sense of self-awareness, including the ability to accept and respond to criticism
  • Emotional maturity and reliability
  • Exceptional self-management on below-management level

And here's some stuff I really don't care about at all:

  • Being the best worker on the team
  • Being the smartest/most experienced of them all
  • Being the one who always ends up doing everything
  • Being the only one who knows how to XYZ
  • etc.

The one thing I can say about your description is that there is absolutely no way that one person does a job that about 30 people - even a lot less experienced ones - do at the same standard of quality and within the same time: My own best horse in the stable is absolutely exceptional. He's recently managed to do the job of about eight people within the same time that they'd been given. It took him two weeks and he nearly cracked under the pressure. We're talking an Oxbridge educated high performer with outstanding motivation here. So, going by this sentence alone (and I freely admit I may be wrong and do mean this in the kindest way), I'm wondering whether self-perception might be a bit of an issue.

Allthebestnamesareused · 02/10/2017 20:03

It is possible that he is fabulous worker bee type , able to run the project etc but does the management role require that? In my field the step up involves marketing, schmoozing clients etc and where some people are great at doing the "work" side of things they will just never be able to do the "business" side of things if that makes sense.

It may be possible that this is why he isn't getting promoted.

Misspilly88 · 02/10/2017 20:06

He definitely needs to leave! Graduates these days are being told not to stay in one job more than 4/5 years. It used to be that loyalty was rewarded but rarely works that way anymore especially in bigger companies .

Misspilly88 · 02/10/2017 20:10

And bossybitch sounds pretty spot on.

Letseatgrandma · 02/10/2017 20:15

Bossybitch has given some very good advice (though I have to say, I don't really understand this bit--- 'Exceptional self-management on below-management level'?)

Doing the work of 30 people sounds rather fantastical-is he prone to exaggeration?

allinclusive · 02/10/2017 20:21

It could be that they prefer him in his current role as he is so good at it, and moving him will cause disruption in his current team, and giving him a pay rise and then replacing him will cost more and cause more upheaval than it's worth.

A good strategy would be to see a recruitment consultant and find out how much he would be earning with his current experience and take it from there.

Original poster
Bonosglasses · 02/10/2017 20:35

I appreciate your comments thank you. I probably didn't explain the 30+ people properly.

He was given a project to start and, proving it worked, to grow it. He did this on his own for nearly a year, then when it was recognised that it was working the team grew to 4/5 people and has steadily grown to what it is now. It wouldn't be where it is without him and that is not an exaggeration. I am blowing a trumpet for him cos someone needs to do it 😊

Bossybitch I'll show him what you have written and maybe he can work with that the next time he applies for promotion.

OP posts:
JuliePatchouli · 02/10/2017 20:43

Bossy's advice is good. Annoyingly.

I am a detail person. I think you need technical people and "manager" people. I have been promoted a number of times but it's along the technical route; I have no interest in managing people whatsoever. Maybe he's pursuing the wrong path?

hungryhippo90 · 02/10/2017 20:47

hmm, how on earth was he doing the job of 30 people? this simply doesnt sound possible,

but I dont want to focus on that too much, but honestly, 34 years and they are not willing to give him a shot to pursue a management role?

I am sorry, but its awful that after that amount of time they arent willing to invest in him, by way of training for him to become a manager, or even to give him the opportunity to try.

is this the only place he has worked? It really may have been that you would gain loyalty from a company from being there the longest and being the hardest worker, sadly in the experience of my husband and many others this is not the case.

My Husband works freelance for this reason, companies generally use and abuse (atleast in the construction industry) and let you go at a moments notice. My husband found that he could generally earn 30% more than the employed lads, for simply being freelance.

Hes worked for most of the top 10 companies, hasnt had a break in contracts, and is paid really, really well for what he does.

If I were him, I would be having this meeting to find out why they didnt hire him for the management role, and I would be making moves to find that management role with another company.

Sometimes its just not easy to move up from within.

BossyBitch · 02/10/2017 20:54

I am a detail person. I think you need technical people and "manager" people.

I believe it was the 20th century philosopher Jagger who pointed out that, regrettably, you can't always get what you want.

I wanted to be an engineer but I was never detail-oriented enough to be the very best techie on the team. I did end up being the one who was friends and could make deals with QA, Ops and client stakeholders ... and that was the beginning of my accidental management career. Smile

lalalalyra · 02/10/2017 21:02

You'll know better once he's got his feedback, but if he honestly believes he's a good fit for management then he needs to either accept that he won't move up any further or look elsewhere.

My DH had to move elsewhere. His bosses were quite open about the fact he'd have to be replaced by two people (his other half left about 5 years before DH and was never replaced) so they never promoted him. He'd worked with that company since school and they never thought he'd leave.

bangingmyheadoffabrickwall · 02/10/2017 21:07

I was sort of in your DH's position a few years ago and now I 'work to rule' and don't give more than what I am paid for.

I started teaching 17 years ago. 5 years into my career, my then HT was encouraging me and supporting me to move into senior leadership - DHT. This was also supported by my then DH. I attended lots of training courses that would give me the skills and 'qualifications' to get into senior roles.
Then my DHT went on secondment and my HT retired. In comes HT2. He was an absolute ARSEHOLE. He had the gift of being a people person but he was utter shit at managing. In the 3 years he 'managed' the school, the LEA were about to grade us as failing, he didn't invest in training for any members of staff, didn't do performance management etc and even took roles from people without telling them. But he was always there at the front of photos to glorify himself. Well, the LEA had had enough and off he trotted!
Then in walked HT3 who is my current HT. She had no idea who held what role in school and it wasn't until she walked in that I found out one of my roles had been given to someone else because HT2 had fucked up and didn't make this official. She also hated all staff prior to her appointment. The school was on the verge of failing and rather blame the inept HT beforehand, she decided that we (us teachers) would be in the firing line. Of 16 teachers who were employed prior to her arrival, only 6 are left! The rest were either pushed, sacked or jumped ship! She employed younger staff, hated those who were recently married and pregnant (God forbid if 'we' mucked up her grand plans by having a family of our own) and bypassed a more experienced and senior teacher TWICE to promote a younger, less experienced and 'cheap' member of staff to a position of seniority. In the 6+ years of her being there, she has not once allowed me to make professional gains in my career or encouraged me.

So now I work to rule. I do only the bare minimum I have to do in my job and don't give them an inch to manipulate or use me in any way.

Lozmatoz · 02/10/2017 21:08

Is he preparing adequately? He needs to work on all the feedback. I Zoe d hours when getting g ready for interview.

MikeUniformMike · 02/10/2017 21:09

He's probably too good where he is to be promoted. He may not be a manager type.
Could he ask for more money or a different promotion?

Sprinklestar · 02/10/2017 21:28

Bossy - your advice is sound but why on earth would you treat your 'best horse in the stable' like that? Why is he under so much pressure that he's close to cracking? That's an awful way to treat an employee!

BossyBitch · 02/10/2017 21:29

Make sure he really understands the feedback, too: Decent bosses should, of course, be expected to be open and honest about career prospects. I make an effort to talk to my people regularly about their future - including cases where my prediction is 'not moving further up'.

Having said that, I know this is an issue for a lot of colleagues in management positions. Bosses are only people, too, and most of us don't particularly enjoy sharing not so great news and may shirk away from it or take any opportunity to cotton-wrap the message. Turns out that a promotion to management doesn't magically turn people into proficient communicators (I've had to learn this the hard way).

So you may want to tell your DH to make sure to ask direct questions not only regarding his last application but also regarding his future prospects. And make sure he understands (as opposed to hears) the answer:

E.g. if you ask 'should I apply again at the next possible opportunity and will you support me?' the answer should be an unequivocal 'yes, and I'll push your application personally' - anything along the lines of 'our company always strives to offer opportunities to outstanding people' should be read as '... unfortunately, this may not necessarily include you'. The clue in this example is the impersonal phrasing regarding both the speaker and the person asking. Hope you get what I mean ...

Stupid? Yes, massively! Cowardly? Definitely! True? Unfortunately very much so!