Women’s comments on the death of Hugh Hefner

[BigFatGoalie]

I know it’s been 5 days since Hugh Hefner passed away, but I’ve been mulling this over (and have a new baby) so haven’t had time to sit and type it out.
I am just interested in your opinions. I saw so many posts about his death and lauding him for being a “revolutionary”, a “leader of cultural and social movements of our time” and that he “advocated free speech, civil rights and sexual freedom”.

I was surprised so see so many women making comments saying “what an amazing man!”
“He was a legend! He lived the best life”
“RIP, he changed the world, it’s now a better place”
Etc etc.
Personally, I think he opened the floodgates to porn as we know it. I believe he played a huge part in the sexualisation of women, encouraging men to view women as “play things” and pretty much telling the world we are to be valued on our looks and attitudes to sexual acts alone.
I know many women are fine with porn, and he definitely was a revolutionary in changing the social culture especially, but is what he did and the empire he created a good thing?
I was just surprised to see so many women acting as though he was a demi-god. I, personally think what he created was vile and mysoginistoc.

I think he was a very astute businessman. Why berate him but not the millions of people around the world who bought what he was selling? There was obviously a huge market for what he was offering.
As for the girls he exploited...they pretty much wanted to be part of the game. They could have walked away any minute and choose another career or job yet they stayed with their pimp. It's not like they were frightened little bunnies who were beaten into submission. They were all ambitious and wanted fame and fortune, albeit the wrong way.

He was a misogynistic piece of shit

As for the girls he exploited...they pretty much wanted to be part of the game

This must have tied your logic up in knots Nazdarovye.

Automatically not believing woman

You can have an enormous impact on the meaning of a sentence by swapping a few words around, can't you AreBananasGood

Why berate him and not the millions of people around the world who bought what he was selling.
Because he was responsible for his own actions. Just because a market exists doesn't mean it has to be filled.
It is true that some women did very well out of playboy. Pamela Anderson comes to mind, and I'm sure there are others. That doesn't negate all the shitty things that he did though, or his own motivations.

AreBananasGood - yes.

Of course, the second he is found guilty of abuse or rape, I would have very different opinions.

@sharksden "The problem with being a serial name-keeper on MN is that your reputation precedes you." That feels a bit creepy perhaps I had better change my name, I don't like the idea people think they know what I will say because I've posted on topics before.

"Do you think women being able to be seen in porn has been a good thing for women, the women in the porn and the rest of us?"

I'm not quite sure how the three groups are differentiated." They are two groups the women in the porn and the rest of us women. (I think it has been bad for both groups, incidentally, maybe no surprises there!)

"Can I guess the next questions and answer them ahead of time?"

"If DH were watching (using) porn, I would be disappointed. I don't take masturbation as a personal insult but to be watching someone else whilst doing it - I would,"

Well that's fine to know but it wasn't going to be my next question.

I also wasn't going to ask about your children in direct relation to porn.

My question was going to be, in an attempt to see the other side of things, do you understand why some women are bothered by porn?
Why they may not want the men they interact with to watch porn and have any misogynistic views fueled by it.

And as you had three questions here is my third, do you understand why some people may not want their kids to first learn about sex from porn? I am not talking about erotic writing etc. I am not anti sex. Just worried children are exposed to very strange ideas about sex from porn, and so are adults.

I read this a while ago and as mum to a son and a daughter I found it very worrying, for both my son and my daughter. I don't want them to grow up feeling this is normal.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

I am not accusing Hugh Hefner of being responsible for all his but he made a lot of money out of women and he normalized porn a lot, IMHO.

OP, I haven't seen anyone (male or female) on my feeds mention him in a positive way.

It's just negative stuff, particularly over Marilyn Monroe and the burial.

I suppose we are just in different social media bubbles.

Most people with even a shred of compassion can presumably see that purposefully arranging to be buried next to someone a. who expressed their dislike for you and b. for sexual reasons is spectacularly fucked up and vile.

What an odious man.

www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-09-29/hugh-hefner-arranged-to-be-buried-next-to-marilyn-monroe-and-a-lot-of-people-think-thats-creepy/

"do you understand why some women are bothered by porn?"

Yes.

"Why they may not want the men they interact with to watch porn"

Yes

"have any misogynistic views fueled by it."

No. I'm not sure how misogynist fits in with watching 'regular' porn. By 'regular', I mean adults, consenting, appearing to enjoy the encounter etc.

I think your ideas about porn are different to mine. I think of porn which is similar to my sex life (in a roundabout way I don't have any problem with my DCs mimicking) and more unusual sex.

Assuming that everyone involved wants to be (and is of age), I have no problem with it.

If my DH liked it, I would be unhappy but that's because I'd be surprised and by now, I like to think I know him inside out.

AreBananasGood

Btw sharks I hope you take the same approach towards the hundred of women on MN who have been in DV relationships; very few have seen their husbands/partners convicted in a court of law

I would offer them support and perhaps something else if possible because I have no reason to disbelieve them and assume that they have nothing to gain by their partners illegal actions. At the same time, I wouldn't set out to hate or despise their partners unless they were proven despicable.

I'm sticking with the innocent until proven guilty. It seems a bedrock of civilisation and not one we should give up for the sisterhood.

Do you automatically believe a woman because she's on MN?

I don't generally start from a position of disbelieving women reporting abuse unless they can prove said abuse via conviction, no.

That's a shame. You're (thankfully) out of kilter with most of society.

BINGO

Thanks!

sharks - I suspect you haven't seen much non-"normal" (to use your terminology) porn

@OlennasWimple

Absolutely. Why would I? I hate the idea of it.

The Playboy magazine I've seen fall under the 'normal' umbrella though.

sharks I haven' seen much porn, but I've read about it, and I see it as very harmful. I see it all as misogynistic as it fuels an image of women as sexual beings (where as both men and women can be sexual) but women are seen as little else. They are decorative and simply present a series of holes to be penetrated (in porn).

I don't think it is about looking at the female form to find her beautiful.

I think it is about control and I find it all very unpleasant. So you are right, we have very different views on it.

I wonder how much porn is now 'normal' or vanilla, and how much involves violence etc.

I think sexulaising women and girls, the shaved off pubes making women look younger, the whole thing is just massively disempowering to women.

I don't think it is like normal sex lives.

And I hope if men were treated like this I would be standing up for their rights.

Ah - I understand your ambivalence (if that's the right word) towards porn and those like HH who have a deep involvement in the industry.

You might feel differently about DD being an actor in porn movies (and your DS being a consumer) if you knew a bit more about what porn in 2017 looks like. As a small introduction, it's worth knowing that the top search term for a number of years now is "teen", ie porn involving women who look like they are underage. Just consider that for a moment.

Then perhaps consider that coercive anal sex is on the rise amongst teen girls as a result of the prevalence of anal in porn, with some girls having anal before they have had PIV. Again, I'm not sure many mothers would truly be content for their DDs to make a living having anal sex on camera for the viewing pleasure of strangers.

www.earnthenecklace.com/brooke-shields-playboy-magazine-photos-hot-pics/

This is horrible. Brook shields when she was 10. How anyone can think he's some sort of hero is fucking delusional

Those Brooke Shields photographs made my blood run cold.
Sharksden , you’re doing a lot of defending of HH, which is your right, but can you tell me what you think he contributed to society?
You clearly admire him, much to my and italiangrey’s surprise, so what did he do that you find so brilliant? (besides the articles he published )

And WTF would you be “Thankful” that people initially disbelieve women who report DV?!

There's no need to believe or disbelieve any person who reports DV, rape, or any crime. The right thing to do is to keep an open mind and examine the available evidence to come to an opinion.
In Hugh Hefner's case there's enough evidence to suggest he was an arsehole.
Same with Jimmy Savile. In his case there is overwhelming evidence that he was a completely psychopathic piece of shit and the fact he wasn't brought to trial doesn't alter that.