Women’s comments on the death of Hugh Hefner

[BigFatGoalie]

I know it’s been 5 days since Hugh Hefner passed away, but I’ve been mulling this over (and have a new baby) so haven’t had time to sit and type it out.
I am just interested in your opinions. I saw so many posts about his death and lauding him for being a “revolutionary”, a “leader of cultural and social movements of our time” and that he “advocated free speech, civil rights and sexual freedom”.

I was surprised so see so many women making comments saying “what an amazing man!”
“He was a legend! He lived the best life”
“RIP, he changed the world, it’s now a better place”
Etc etc.
Personally, I think he opened the floodgates to porn as we know it. I believe he played a huge part in the sexualisation of women, encouraging men to view women as “play things” and pretty much telling the world we are to be valued on our looks and attitudes to sexual acts alone.
I know many women are fine with porn, and he definitely was a revolutionary in changing the social culture especially, but is what he did and the empire he created a good thing?
I was just surprised to see so many women acting as though he was a demi-god. I, personally think what he created was vile and mysoginistoc.

I loathe him and everything he stands for, and before the apologists come out lauding anything positive he did. I do know all about it I know far more than I would like about Playboy's beginnings and what it contained (I researched it for work reasons) and I don't care. I think the harm he did to the perception of women and the harm he did to individual women working in his dreadful mansion outweighs anything positive. If you doubt this read up more on him but do not apologise for what he has done or make excuses.

He has a vile soul and I'll not mourn him.

If it was an old woman who boasted about sleeping with over a thousand men, had lots of young boyfriends she kept to have sex with then I doubt people would be lauding her as some kind of god/hero. He was a creep.

Rather than just thinking, spend some time reading or learning.

There's always one po-faced defender in these threads suggesting that anyone who thinks Hugh Hefner was a misogynist just hasn't "educated themselves".

Then when dozens of great examples are given, they change their track to claiming that he was a "complex person" and that somehow his support for civil rights cancels out his misogyny.

Or they just never come back. I'm on tenterhooks waiting to see which one it will be.

He did duck all for women except exploit them.

Very sad for him to be hailed as any kind of hero.

That is obviously fuck all, but my auto correct is a prude!

Btw the playboy bunnies might say they happiliy went to the mansion heck 3 of his girlfriends got a tv series out of it doesn't mean he wasn't a mysoginistic sleazebag his "girlfriends" were imo vulnerable women

I'm waiting for a single example to be given.

And of course, name calling doesn't actually count.

I can't find a single example of women "fucked until they can't walk for men's entertainment" or women having sex with dogs. Linda Lovelace alleged the latter but I'm old-fashioned in my 'innocent until proven guilty' outlook.

You may say it's misogynist (as is the fashion in these parts) but I set the bar higher than simply not automatically believing anything that any woman ever says.

I didn't say that he did something for women. I said that I can't see any evidence of him hating women, nor can I see any reason to despise him.

Rather than wait on tenterhooks, can you show me anything he's done that was illegal or immoral?

BTW, having multiple willing, consenting, adult sexual partners isn't one, nor is buying the rights to nude photos when the model willingly had them taken and made profit from their sale.

sharks

He objectified women and made money out of them. Whether they were willing or not, I am not willing for my sex class to be objectified in this way. I hate porn. I consider porn 'immoral'. Your choice of word.

Now maybe you will define immoral and maybe your version of the word will be different from mine.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/09/29/hugh-hefners-world-wasnt-just-bad-for-women-it-hurt-men-too/?utm_term=.768c95176500

Do you think sleeping with over a thousand women is immoral?

"In the Playboy offices, life imitated image. Mr. Hefner told a film interviewer that in the early days, yes, “everybody was coupling with everybody,” including him. He later estimated that he had slept with more than 1,000 women. Over and over, he would say, “I’m the boy who dreamed the dream.”

www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/obituaries/hugh-hefner-dead.html?mcubz=0

Maybe sleeping with a thousand people is not a moral issue for you.

What about paying for sex? On some level I think some of the beautiful young women who slept with him were prostituted in that they chose him because of some financial inducement. For me this is immoral. Again, maybe not for you sharks.

@Italiangreyhound

"I am not willing for my sex class to be objectified in this way."

Umm ...

I wish I had a wittier reply than "so?".

Until you're made King of all Women, your willingness has no power whatsoever. Their willingness is all that matters and the fact that you think your opinion has any power over them at all is quite disconcerting. Do you care to explain why "whether they were willing or not" is not as scary as it sounds? Swapping the patriarchy for the matriarchy?

You're correct in assuming that I don't define consenting adults morality by the number of sexual partners they've had. I've had one (married for nearly 4 decades, 2 children, unlikely to increase my 'number'). Am I more moral than most?

I'm most offended on behalf of the women you call prostitutes; the ones who don't want or need your pity. The beautiful ones as well as the ugly(?) ones.

Are all young beautiful people who have older, richer partners some kind of prostitutes?

sharks "I wish I had a wittier reply than "so?"

I wish you had too!

I do realise I cannot go back in time and change history and stop the relentless march of the objectification of women through porn.

But i do not like it. And I think it is immoral. (your word) And he got rich doing it.

"King of all Women" Oh please I would surely be Queen of all women!

"Their willingness is all that matters and the fact that you think your opinion has any power over them at all is quite disconcerting."

1. Are you sure women in porn are willing
2. Do you seriously think I can go back in time and change stuff? Do you think I think I can - or do you think I am expressing my views? Am I at least entitled to my own views?

"Do you care to explain why "whether they were willing or not" is not as scary as it sounds? Swapping the patriarchy for the matriarchy?"

So if I were queen of the world and women were not degraded in in porn and had well paid jobs, do you think they would be queuing up to complain to me?

I am not interested to define your morality, we are talking about Hugh, not you.

"I'm most offended on behalf of the women you call prostitutes; the ones who don't want or need your pity. The beautiful ones as well as the ugly(?) ones."

I am not giving them my pity, nor do I expect they need it. I am suggesting that young, beautiful women may not be sexually attracted to a much older man offering then nothing more than a night of sex. (I didn't' see any ugly ones in the photos.) He surrounded himself with beautiful much younger women who he slept with. Did the women do this out of sexual desire or some sort of financial gain. I do not know, but I am guessing some at least fell in the later category.

"Are all young beautiful people who have older, richer partners some kind of prostitutes?" I did not say that and I do not believe that.

Anyway, not really interested in an argument, you asked what he did, this is what I think he did. You aren't going to talk me out of that opinion and you are 100% entitled to your own.

I did my best to read and understand your post. I really did.

OK, @sharksDen let's do a little experiment. I am up for it if you are. And I am not nearly as mean in real life as I sound on here sometimes (honest)

I just really, really hate porn.

Answer me a couple of questions, if you are willing (please) and you can pose me a question to consider, if you wish, and I will pose you one to consider, nothing weird!

Go for it.

I meet genuinely mean people (Apprentice-mean) daily and they don't phase me.

Ok, I am seriously not genuinely mean!

Answer these questions and I will set you a little thinking, 'can I see the other side of this', task; and you can set me one if you wish.

Are you male or female?
Is your partner male or female?
Are your kids male or female?

No names or further details, just the basic questions.

Must go and make dinner, back later.

sharksden nypost.com/2017/09/30/hefners-former-valet-reflects-on-pig-nights-with-hookers-and-hef/

"I always imagined you as a shoal of those fish that you stick your feet into when on holiday in Cambodia." Yikes, that is really quite mean to me.

"Do you find it tiresome to always assume that everything bad that happens to you or other women is the result of men (see also 'patriarchy')?" Maybe I think this sometimes; if I do, is it tiresome, well that depends if it is true.

I am very lucky, I have a lovely life and I a generally very happy. My issues with the patriarchy is how it affects other women and how it may affect my daughter. I have been very lucky to have a nice life.

See I consider it lucky I've not been raped or abused etc. The bar is quite low for women sometimes.

"Do you ever feel slightly embarrassed when explaining to the 'unenlightened' how the patriarchy (a system set up to help men) also harms men?" I am not sure I do that much, I don't think I did that here, I just linked to an article. I am not too fussed how patriarchy effects men, (if I am honest), except my son, like you I do care about my son.

"Do you think that every situation comes down to an us (female) against them (male) and do you think that this makes people bitter, monomaniacal and unable to look beyond their own narrow view?"

No, and no.

noeffingidea

What point are you trying to make?

"that is really quite mean to me."

Why? Exfoliated feet are great. Perhaps it pricked your ego - you see yourself as an imposing and mean figure although I'm not sure what this is based on.

I assumed that there would be follow-up questions to my answers.

Were you hoping I was either a man and / or parent of sons?

No, I do not see myself as mean, I felt I had been a bit snappy with you earlier that was all.

OK, my question. Do you think women being able to be seen in porn has been a good thing for women, the women in the porn and the rest of us?

"Were you hoping I was either a man and / or parent of sons?" I was not hoping anything, I was asking.

I hadn't noticed you being snappy. The problem with being a serial name-keeper on MN is that your reputation precedes you.

"Do you think women being able to be seen in porn has been a good thing for women, the women in the porn and the rest of us?"

I'm not quite sure how the three groups are differentiated.

I think that for the women making money from porn, it's been good. For women not in porn and men not in porn, it has made no significant difference.

Can I guess the next questions and answer them ahead of time?

If DH were watching (using) porn, I would be disappointed. I don't take masturbation as a personal insult but to be watching someone else whilst doing it - I would,

DS - assuming it was 'normal' porn (adults etc) I would have no real objection.

DD - Of course I hope she wouldn't become an actress but if she did and did so of her own free will, I don't see what grounds I could use to stop her. Blaming men would be at the bottom of my list.

His mansion parties were known for orgies and drugs. I think both of those are unhealthy both emtionally and physically so i ignored him and his corporation.

Of course there is worse and he didn't invent porn. But i lived in los angeles and that place seemed like a place that wss the opposite of feminism and equality.

sharksden the point I was making (not trying to) was simply to provide the example that you said you couldn't find in your post of 13.38.
Women who were unable to walk following sex with pornstars, paid for by Mr Hefner as entertainment for him and his guests.