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Original poster

To think that Jacob Rees - Mogg is an effing hypocrite

116 replies

Poshindevon · 01/10/2017 22:50

It has been in the papers today that Somerset Capital Management an investment company owned by Jacob Rees - Mogg has a large investment in a company called Kalbe Farme who manufacture pills used in abortions
The Somerset MP is against abortion even in rape cases, but profits from the sale of pills widely used in illegal abortions in Indonesia
tinyurl.com/y77m2yjl

OP posts:
BabsGanoush · 02/10/2017 07:46

Ppfft! A politican who says one thing and does another. Just like every politician, Left or Right.

OhOhDearling · 02/10/2017 07:50

Yes, I have read the whole article. But given he is quite happy to inform us just how moral he is, I'm quite happy to hold him to that. Funny how investors can make their own minds up, isn't it, when he won't allow women that courtesy.

badabing36 · 02/10/2017 07:58

Maursh do you really think the investment company don't know why their stomach pills are so popular in a country where abortion is illegal? Also these companies are organised to be vague about who is investing in them so that they can profit from misery like this or evade tax without anyone having to look directly responsible.

toffee1000 · 02/10/2017 08:03

Whatever the pill is really meant for, he's still an arse.

Ceto · 02/10/2017 08:04

Rees-Mogg does not personally own the company - his investment company invests client money into it in accordance with the clients policy.

So what precisely forces Rees-Mogg to use that investment company and not another with a more ethical policy?

Hayesking · 02/10/2017 08:05

The company is ethical!

Ceto · 02/10/2017 08:06

His primary hypocrisy lies in showing so much concern for the foetus up to the moment it is born, yet being part of a government that shows zero concern for its welfare after birth, particularly if it is careless enough to be born into a poor family.

topicOfTheDay · 02/10/2017 08:06

Kalbe Farme produces and markets pills that are used to treat stomach ulcers but they are widely known to trigger terminations and in Indonesia, where abortions are illegal and carried out in black market clinics, they are commonly used for this purpose.

Mr Rees-Mogg added: “I don’t manage the funds and haven’t done so since I became an MP. But the funds have to be run in accordance with the requirements of the investors and not according to my religious beliefs.

“This is not something I would wish to invest in personally but you have a duty as an investment manager not to impose constraints on investors.”

Boring clickbait OP.

I have very little idea how my money is invested once I've sent it to a broker. I believe in free speech but own quite a few Singaporean Government Bonds.

I think that you are twisting exactly what is happening and occurring.

Tell me, should a pharmacist or doctor be allowed to refuse to sell the MAP or do they need to understand the distinction between their personal beliefs and their job?

Morality is rarely black and white.

Ceto · 02/10/2017 08:08

It's not entirely ethical to promote an abortifacient under the label of stomach medicine, is it? And in any event if he doesn't want to be labelled a hypocrite, the issue is his ethics, or what he claims his ethics to be.

Hayesking · 02/10/2017 08:09

His primary hypocrisy lies in showing so much concern for the foetus up to the moment it is born, yet being part of a government that shows zero concern for its welfare after birth, particularly if it is careless enough to be born into a poor family.

Now this I agree with!

opheliacat · 02/10/2017 08:12

The thing with people who are pro-life "except where the woman has been raped" is that they are not pro life at all. They are anti sex, specifically, anti the woman having sex. If a woman has been raped, well, she didn't choose to have sex so she can't be blamed but if she consented to have sex and then had the shits and the Pill didn't work, or the condom split, or she didn't use anything at all, well, she needs punishing. Actions have consequences. And in this case the consequence is an unwanted pregnancy. So you get sick and fat and give birth and have all the emotional, physical and financial strains of raising a child and that is what you deserve because you had sex.

Pro life in all instances see it differently. They genuinely see life as starting at conception. I don't, but if pushed, I think most of us would say somewhere on that nine month journey it stops being a foetus but it is impossible to say where that point is. I don't know myself. But if you see it as being at conception, it isn't about punishing a woman for having sex but about human life. In other words, a pro lifer would have the same response to aborting a pregnancy conceived by rape as I might have to a suggestion that a 2 month old conceived by rape be killed.

Now, as it happens, I disagree vehmently with RM. I have terminated pregnancies twice myself and I believe suffering is avoided through quick access to termination. But I do not feel his views are remotely hypocritical. The real hypocrites are those who are against abortion "except where the woman has been raped" because they aren't truly against abortion at all. Incidentally, I have known many people in political, medical and legal backgrounds who are against abortion and who are compassionate and thoughtful individuals who put their personal views aside in a professional context.

Riversleep · 02/10/2017 08:14

The man clearly hasn't looked at the anti abortion utopia that is Indonesia and realised that the consequences of the policy is not no abortion but that women are risking their lives to have them illegally using drugs prescribed for something completely different. His love of all things 1950's hasn't taken him down that road here however. Either that or women who don't want to merely be Gods vessels for future believers are expendable.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/10/2017 08:20

Big difference between someone stuck in a (not highly paid) job at a chemist, where refusing to sell pills could mean unemployment and financial ruin

vs someone super-wealthy who could afford to use an ethical investment management firm

Ok, their umpteen million quid fortune might increase at say only 5% p.a. instead of 5.1%
but it would make NO difference to the standard of living enjoyed by him and his family

Gottagetmoving · 02/10/2017 08:35

I thought the abortion pills were prescribed for precisely that ...not for stomach problems? That's what I read anyway.

TammySwansonTwo · 02/10/2017 08:38

topic then you are a hypocrite too, end of story. It's amazing the way people think their morals are important until it affects how much money they can earn (from money they already have). Grim.

badabing36 · 02/10/2017 08:45

I believe in free speech but own quite a few Singaporean Government Bonds OK then

topicOfTheDay · 02/10/2017 09:08

opheliacat

Quite shocking that you see pregnancy as a punishment or that you seem to disagree with actions having consequences. As Ceto suggested, not everyone believes in a welfare state for adults who don't have the maturity to deal with a situation that they've created. What does cutbacks in handouts and the Tories vs unsustainable benefits under Labour have to do with R-M and his views on abortion?

BigChocFrenzy

But Drs and chemists are allowed to not deal with things such as MAP based on religious or moral grounds.

Would you work in some capacity (HR, secretarial, Finance) for a pharma company which supplied drugs to the US for the death sentence? If a company began doing something you disagree with, would you resign?

If you work in IT and a separate project was writing code for nuclear missiles (which you oppose), would you leave?

I think that the boring attack on R-M is unsubstantiated in this instance. I also have no issue with people being against abortion. Who are we to say when we can end a life or when a foetus become a life? I'm not. I say this despite taking one MAP and one very (very) early abortion.

There's so much in politics to take issue with but on this occasion, I don't think it's fair.

TammySwansonTwo

Am I? Because Singapore has a terrible issue with censorship of its citizens? I'm vehemently against the death penalty but wouldn't uninvest from any company that trades in the US. It's not as easy as those hard of thinking like to believe. "fact" or "end of story" don't actually help you make a point or sound authoritative. HTH

How about you tell me how you have invested money. Within 10 minutes, I'll be able to show how somewhere along the chain, there are morally dubious dealings. What do you reckon?

opheliacat · 02/10/2017 09:27

NO, topic, that is NOT what I said

I said that people who are anti abortion "except in cases of rape" are those who see pregnancy as a punishment. In other words, these people believe that if women are going to have sex, they should bewr the consequences, i.e. pregnancy.

RM doesn't, as far as I can see, fall into this category, which isn't that I agree with him - I don't - buf I am fed up of the gasping headlines "he is anti abortion even if she has been raped. To which I say GOOD, because at least he isn't a hypocrite, about that at least.

topicOfTheDay · 02/10/2017 09:39

But consequence and punishment aren't synonymous.

Whilst I dislike hypocrisy, I admire those who become unsure of their position in some cases. I disagree with the current cut-off point for abortions. However, without blind faith or scientific acumen, I freely admit that my morals become muddled. The extremes such as MAP or very late term abortions are easily argued for or against but the middle ground is tougher.

everymummy · 02/10/2017 09:43

topic so you wouldn't uninvest from any company that trades in the US, but would you continue to invest in a company that produces the drugs used to carry out the death penalty?

Of course there are morally dubious dealings everywhere, but you can choose schemes that don't directly invest in something you have a strong opinion on, and particularly if you are a politician and want people to take you seriously.

topicOfTheDay · 02/10/2017 09:56

I firmly believe in the death penalty in some instances so that's a poor question for me.

I agree with the sentiment of your second sentence but I wouldn't class R-Ms investment as direct. First and foremost, the drug isn't an abortion drug. Further, it isn't the company's only product and the investors don't only invest in this company.

The Tories and 'opposition' deserve plenty of derision and questioning at the moment, but to my mind, this current story isn't really ammunition. It's boring click-bait which is quickly clarified in the article.

lucydogz · 02/10/2017 10:06

Thanks maursh for a sane voice. On the abortion thing, RM is a Catholic and that's part of the Catholic faith. He was asked about it in an interview where he had been invited on to talk about something completely different. And told the truth. Where a lot of MP's would have lied. Whatever you think of his political views I think he deserves respect for that.

TammySwansonTwo · 02/10/2017 10:11

Oh good, he's telling the truth about being a scumbag. Good that we hold our politicians to such high standards.

topic hard of thinking indeed... i won't even go into your following post regarding welfare propping up people's poor decision. Just appalling. Don't kid yourself that your affluence is due to anything but good fortune.

lucydogz · 02/10/2017 10:13

So all Catholic s are scumbags? How very tolerant of you.

LurkingHusband · 02/10/2017 10:24

But the funds have to be run in accordance with the requirements of the investors and not according to my religious beliefs.

But he'd like us to run our country in accordance with his religious beliefs ?