To breast feed if it's causing DS pain or discomfort?

[QueenAmongstMen]

I have a 6 week old baby and at Day 7 I had him assessed for Tongue Tie because feeding was horrendous and at Day 9 he had it snipped.

Feeding was pain free following the division but I've continued to have problems on one breast with poor attachment, clicking noises, milk leaking out the side of his mouth and lots of spluttering. His feeding on the other breast still isn't perfect but pretty close.

Due to being 5 weeks post Tongue-tie repair and still having these problems I had him reassessed three days ago and after lots of discussion, reassessment of his sucking abilities and observing feeds the woman said the problems I'm having aren't related to his tongue tie and in her opinion it's because he has a misalignment of his neck. He has always tilted his head to the left and she said it's very common in c-section babies, which is how DS was delivered. She advised I see a Chiropractor or someone who performs cranial osteopathy in order to correct his neck positioning.

It is likely that breast feeding is uncomfortable for him due to him being unable to feed in the correct position and having to twist his neck in an unnatural position for him and I can see that this makes sense as DS has never comfort fed and unless he's hungry he will not go to the breast. His feeds are often very quick and it's like he sees them as nothing but a food supply and he wants to get the job done as quickly as possible.

I will be contacting the Chiropractor tomorrow and it's usually a week wait for the initial consultation and then weekly sessions with most necks being corrected in three sessions.

I was talking to my brother about it this evening and he basically said I'm being cruel to continue breast feeding if it's causing discomfort and I should just "put him on the bottle." I explained I was intending to get the misalignment corrected and within a month things should be fine but he said that a month is a long time to go if I'm causing DS discomfort.

His comments were quite upsetting actually as I had never considered myself to be doing anything wrong by DS by intending to continue breast feeding him.

Aside from the feeding difficulties mentioned above DS appears settled at the breast and doesn't seem to be in pain or discomfort hence my plan to just carry on breast feeding alongside having treatment but my brother has made me doubt myself now.

Is continuing to breast feed for the next month really such a bad thing? Even if it's slightly uncomfortable until treatment is complete it's no different to what he's used to anyway, and surely the benefits of him being able to breast feed correctly after the treatment outweigh the ease of just putting him on bottles instead?

Has anyone else been in a situation like this?

He's got his 6 week check tomorrow so I will discuss it then.

The clinic I had already made enquiries into phoned me earlier to see if I still wanted to book an appointment but I said I wanted to hold fire until I've spoken to the GP.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27936211/

No evidence base for cranial osteopathy. I would be wary of a HCP who was recommending it.

Would you give your child untested medication? This isn't that different.

I've had 2 tongue tie babies. My now 7 month old DS had his snipped at 6 days after a 10% weight loss.

I thought great everything will be fine now..nope it was still difficult. I had lots of support & advice saying it takes babies time to get 'used' to their 'new tongue'. My DS was so much better by 8 weeks. Have you tried the koala position? (Definitely not bid to go in public!) & also feeding lying down? I couldn't get to grips with the rugby ball position either.

It will get easier. My DS has only feed from the left side from around 8 weeks, I've no idea why! He's gained weight slowly but surely & no one ever seemed concerned.

Keep going OP, you're doing great.

When I went to the clinic last week she said she would wait a minimum of 8-9 weeks post division to allow for improvement before considering whether a second division was required. She noted that when DS cries his tongue remains at the base of the mouth but he he is able to stick his tongue out of his mouth and able to cover his lower gums which he hadn't been able to do before.

She said DS may be just a slow learner when it comes to adapting to his new tongue but the issues are more than likely due to his neck and won't be resolved until he is able to position himself correctly at the breast.

She told me to to try the Chiropractor/Osteopath and if problems still persist then to return to her for reassessment.

I was told that if I'm going to encounter weight related problems due to low milk supply as a result of ineffective milk transfer then it's going to be at weeks 8-10 so when that point hits I'm going to take it a day at a time.

Do whatever you like (I'd continue feeding as I doubt he's in discomfort) but PLEASE do not take him to a chiropractor. It's utter quackery, has no benefit at all and people have been killed by them. No WAY does a baby need to be "adjusted". Whoever told you to take him to one is a dangerous idiot.

My friends little one had tongue tie and it reattached because she (the baby) would naturally have her head low (chin on neck) and was advised to make sure she had her chin off the neck when feeding, could he be doing this when feeding from 1 side? Might be worth noting his head position.

Does he "click" on one side? Have you checked for a cleft palate? A small hole in 1 side could mean he struggles to get the vacuum needed to feed. Some clefts have a Thin layer of skin over them, so if you are concerned make sure the doctor looks properly.

Hth

Notgot much adive really but, i regret stopping breatfeeding so mich. i have no other regrets in life at all, other than that. My ds was similar to your situation, tongue tie, possible neck problems etc. My milk just pretty much stopped one day , and i was encouraged by my devious mother, babys father and family members to “just bottle feed him”. I regret it so much and would literally do anything to be anle to go back in time. Dont stop unless your sure its best for him and for you. Dont have any regrets like i do

unicorn - sorry you feel so low about stopping. It because of those type of regrets that I don't want to stop breast feeding unless I know for definite that in some way it's to DS's detriment

The LC I saw last Friday noted how high DS's palette is and said the noises I hear will probably always be there as there's so much negative pressure inside his mouth as a result of my breast being unable to fill that space. She said that children's palettes do change as they get older but not until they're about 2+ years old. The noises I hear aren't quiet little clicking noises, but more a loud squelchy popping noise (like how a plunger sounds when you release it from whatever you're plunging) and it sounds as though he's losing his latch and the noise is like a loud pop as he loses the suction. It probably occurs in about 10-20% of feeds from the left breast (the good side) and happens frequently with every feed from the right breast.

The position his head is in is that he's always twisting his head to the left. If you imagine you are breast feeding a baby and you are looking downwards at it as it lies across your chest, when he feeds on the left side his head is twisted in such a way that rather than looking towards the breast he's actually turning his head to the left which means he's looking in the direction of my face. His neck is twisted for the duration of the feed and it does get a bit uncomfortable as the nipple isn't going in a straight line to the back of his mouth and is instead positioned incorrectly/twisted due to him having his head turned. The same problem occurs in the right breast in terms of not being able to feed with his head and body in a straight line and instead his head is twisting to the left which means he's looking downwards to the floor instead of straight ahead at the breast.

I hadn't considered a cleft palate as both LC who have looked at it only said it was high, not that there were any other abnormalities. However, I was on medication in pregnancy which can cause cleft lips so I will definitely get the doctor to check during the appointment. Thank you for the suggestion.

I don't know what to do for the best as although my nipples aren't damaged and feeding is generally pain free I'm still feeling friction and discomfort on my nipples following a feed due to them not being positioned correctly in his mouth when he feeds.

Well I spoke to the GP and she couldn't have been less interested. She didn't ask what particular feeding difficulties I was having in relation to his positioning and she didn't even examine his neck either.

She just dismissed my concerns, said all babies have a preference in which direction they turn their head and then she changed the subject

Your biggest complaints seem to be that (a) baby looks uncomfortable and (b) you are feeling discomfort on your nipples. Is that right?

Both not nice for a new mum, I get that.

Thing is though, the doctor is looking at the fact that your child is gaining weight and you are in one piece, and thinking, there is no point looking into this as it's not really causing significant problems. And I can understand that really.

My DS never fed well from my left breast, I had oversupply and over-strong letdown in my right that was probably due to an earlier-used nipple shield that didn't fit the left very well.

DS would choke, go blue, be very uncomfortable - but - he put on weight well, and the doctor told me, look, this is incredibly temporary, he is not always going to be this small. Get through it and he will be fine and you'll forget this was even an issue. And she was right. By 14 weeks we were much more comfortable, and I bf him to 2.5 years.

In a very short time your DS will be big enough to bf while straddling your knee, for example. Even before that, he's likely to get enough neck strength to become more versatile in his feeding. Also remember, you don't need to feed from both breasts - you can favour one. Do whatever works.

You are doing fine - nothing need be perfect. Really! You are doing so well, don't let this temporary imperfection convince you otherwise x

Thanks Bees - do you think I should just leave DS to it then as opposed to getting him seen by an Osteopath?

I don't see why you should just put up and shut up, but it depends how much this is affecting you on a daily basis. As i said in my previous post I had the same issue and it was completely sorted by a cranial osteo, I had no idea it was considered woo at all until this thread and maybe that is naive on my part, but my midwife recommended it who I trusted and it absolutely worked for DD. She was so calm and latched on beautifully after just a few sessions. I've heard since it is quite a common solution to feeding/sleeping issues and heard many good things about it, but please do your own research as clearly there is no scientific evidence it does anything and it sounds like there are some charletons out there. I'm sorry your gp is so shit. I had a gp tell me to just give up and use formula when I was incorrectly diagnosed with a tongue tie then nipple thrush (was bad latch) and it really upset me. I felt like there was so much pressure to bf before DD then no proper support when you ask for it after. good luck . I went on to bf for 18 months out of sheer stubborness and after the first 6-8 weeks of hell it really was an absolute joy and no faff thereafter.

sorry for the essay!

Queen, I'd not go the osteopath route as they are proven quacks. This article explains it a bit: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/18/osteopaths-chiropractors-back-pain-whose-spine-is-it-anyway

"Cranial osteopathy" is a way to part desperate mums from money and has (at best) no effect, and in the opinion of evidence-based hcps, it is potentially dangerous as NO baby's cranium should be interfered with without an incredibly good reason.

The anecdotes you hear about CO being wonderful... are likely due to the fact that babies grow, and stop having these problems.

In my experience, learning to accept that things aren't perfect, and that every age is just a stage, is a better solution than going to a quack who could potentially kill my baby with dangerous nonsense.

One disclaimer is that quacks are sometimes lovely people, and all you may need is for a lovely person to tell you it will be OK. If you want to do that, there's no harm in it. I wouldn't let an osteopath (or chiropractor) touch any child of mine, though. Their spines, joints and crania will only be manipulated by a hcp with a fact-based, education in evidence-based medicine / peer-reviewed science.

ffs scaremongering much

The problem is that I don't feel like I have any choice but to look at alternative therapies.

Feeding is uncomfortable for me and although my nipples aren't damaged I fear they will be if things continue as they are.

Feeding is definitely uncomfortable for him and he is not happy at the breast. I'm lucky if I can even get him to feed for 10 minutes, it's usually only 5 minutes before he's coming off. This morning he only fed for three minutes before squirming, coming off and crying. He then starts rooting again but as soon as I put him to the breast he starts fighting it again.

My breasts are always feeling fuller because he's just not emptying them and there's only so long before that starts affecting his weight.

He's got blisters on his lips where's he's hanging on tightly to my breast because he can't maintain a seal and he suffers so badly with wind because of how much air he's taking in.

I don't want to bottle feed him but this isn't manageable, every day it feels like things are getting worse and I don't know what to do.

The whole thing is just getting me down and my GP wasn't remotely interested, she couldn't even be bothered to examine him, so where else am I supposed to go for for help?

QueenAmongstMen

Honestly - try an osteopath. I've been to one as an adult for various aches and pains and it's nothing I'd be afraid to do on a child. They basically massaged painful joints and had me do exercises to strengthen or stretch certain areas.

Chiro is different - I would avoid that for a newborn.

I just can't cope anymore. I'm sitting here crying out of worry and frustration.

I don't want to formula feed him, I don't want to give him expressed milk in a bottle, I just want to breast feed my baby.

I haven't RTFT (sorry) but does your local health visiting team include a different lactation consultant, or just one? I honestly think you need to keep putting the onus back on them and/or the GP. If you want to breastfeed but aren't getting the support you need to do so, that's a massive shame and they need to help you.

Do get him seen by the osteopath - you have nothing to lose and if it may help, it's worth a shot.

I believe cranial osteopaths don't actually do any manipulation, its more about realigning "cranial rhythms" than bones so I doubt it will do any harm.

Is there an infant feeding specialist at the hospital you gave birth in? If it's a UNICEF baby friendly hospital I think they should have someone. Also the ENT department might have a tongue tie clinic so you could see about getting referred there.

You could see another GP about the neck issue - I think its called torticollis and is fairly common. There are exercises you can do so might be worth asking about referral to a paed physio.

But, if you/ your baby aren't enjoying breastfeeding then you know rationally that formula is absolutely fine - the risks/ benefits of each are really pretty minimal.

I went to a Tongue Tie clinic last week and it was the LC that I saw there who said she thought DS had a misaligned neck and suggested the Osteopathy.

She was the second LC I have seen but the first one saw DS at 9 days old and so he was probably too young to think about neck issues and we both just assumed all his problems were TT related.

There is another TT clinic I could access but there's about a 4 week waiting list. Plus, his tongue function is much improved since the division and the most recent LC I saw was confident the problems I'm facing are not related to his tongue but that he can't position himself correctly at the breast because he's always twisting his head to the side.

I've just tried to feed him again and it was uncomfortable for me and he fed for about 2 minutes before coming off again. It just made me cry again.

I'm now having a cup of tea and some biscuits to try and calm down and then I will try again.

I know you've said you don't want to express, but is it worth doing it now as a one-off, just so that you can give him a feed and not worry about him being hungry? Then you can relax, have a little break and revisit breastfeeding again in a couple of hours without being too stressed?

I've managed to get him feeding but they aren't particularly good feeds and he's still reluctant. If I hold him in the right position he looks uncomfortable and won't feed, but if I let him settle in to his normal head twisted positions my nipples hurt whilst he feeds. It's a no-win situation.

I have contacted an Osteopathy clinic and have an appointment on Monday. I'm prepared to take the chance that they aren't going to do anything that will kill him.