Pushchair, wheelchair and the bus driver - what the hell?

[TooSmittle]

On the bus this morning, my pushchair and a pram in the wheelchair space. A couple with a child in a wheelchair got on. The child got out and walked up the bus leaving the man with nowhere to put the wheelchair without folding it.

The baby in the other pram was only 3 weeks old (mine are 3 and 1) so I said I'd get off to make space. The whole bus seemed to errupt trying to make space for us and tutting about the wheelchair. The man did say he'd fold but I didn't want to add any inconvenience to his day and hopped off.

As it happened the next bus was literally right behind and about to go round my original bus but stopped as I put my arm out. I got on explaining that a wheelchair had just got on the other bus. He said "You got off because of the wheelchair? You dont have to do that you know, you should have just stayed on."

What??? I get that asking (forcing?) pushchairs to make way for wheelchairs is probably not a bus drivers favourite task, but actively encouraging people not to move? I'm not wrong that this is crazy, am I? If I let their head office know will they do anything?

I agree that wheelchair users should get priority but I don't know how someone can fold up their pram while holding a baby/toddler? My pram is relatively small and light but it takes 2 hands and a foot to fold it down? It's a difficult situation.

@headintheproverbial So you think that everyone going to/from their place of work or study on the bus should move for a pram?

How would that even work when you can't get a pram down the isle?

It doesn't matter go big or small the pushchairs are. Its a 2 limit on PR buses with obvious priority to wheelchair users for the first space (can't acomodate two wheelchair users).

I don't understand why they can only take two tbh. I get clearing the wheelchair space for an wheelchair user but the other side on our new buses is big enough for two buggies / prams

What also bugs me is people sitting in the pulldown seats on an empty bus and refusing to move for a buggy. I'll just have him sticking out intithe aisle and piss everyone else off then shall I?

Well done op. A pram should be folded or taken off the bus before a wheelchair has to be folded. And while I understand a bus driver can't force someone To get off they should all be trained that the wheelchair has priority even if they can only suggest this not enforce. Maybe training should include comments for them to make over the speaker - ok to confirm you definitely think whatever you are doing is more important than that wheelchair users right to the wheelchair space? You have one of those prams that don't fold up I suppose.

2 buggies side by side with a wheelchair user on the opposite side is a health and safety no-no on most vehicles. In fire/terror attack or accident, a bus is evacuated back to front due to the diesel tank being at the back. 2 buggies pushed in tight against each other simply can't be moved quickly plus they need to back of buggy onto the crash cushion. I'd rather have had dds buggy bounce of the crash cushion than get slammed side on into another metal framed pram in the event of an accident. You know what health and safety is like. They aren't rules you can ignore without being given your head in your hands to play with. Everyone has so many rights now that we're inevitably infringing on each others it seems.

I've personally never had to evacuate a bus. DH has. He had an engine fire. He said it spread in seconds. Any delay to getting everyone off could have been so very bad. In London I can only imagine they have to be even more strict about these rules after so many attacks

they need to back of buggy onto the crash cushion. on our buses there isn't a cushion on the "buggy" side, only the wheelchair side. Then one person insists on sitting on the pull down seats despite the bus being half empty so you end up with a buggy halfway across the aisle blocking the way. Grrrr

Oh no, should be a soft fold up seat at least that becomes a crash cushion! We have brand new customized Enviro 300 series vehicles. Very safe. One was hit at high speed by another bus on the motorway recently and everyone, including the buggy in the bay escaped injury! I wouldn't have fancied the chances of a buggy in an aisle at that speed. Or two buggies side by side colliding at 50mph. Doesn't bare thinking about.

It's so difficult. I don't drive but I rarely get the bus as this scenario stresses me out. I have twins and a double buggy. I only use the bus when going to hospital appointments as it's an easy journey. I always allow extra time in case we can't fit on a bus but there have been times when we've had to let several go past before we can squeeze on to one. One of my twins has a serious health issue and being out in the cold can make him really unwell so I'm dreading the winter, and it's not like I can hold them both in a taxi! I've had someone yell at me for not taking them out and dismantling the buggy - not sure where they think I'm supposed to put crawling twins while doing so, or how to keep them safe for the journey? If I had time I would absolutely get off for a wheelchair user, but if I had to get him to the hospital (whether for an appointment or to get seen asap as has happened a few times) it would be really tricky.

You definitely did the right thing and that driver is a dick.

That the problem with the passive aggressive comments someone suggested earlier about "ok to confirm you definitely think whatever you are doing is more important than that wheelchair users right to the wheelchair space" - sometimes the answer is going to be yes if your taking your chold into hospital for treatment etc or if you have a poorly one that needs picking up. Of course you dont know what the person in the wheelchair is heading off to, but being a parent on the bus with a pushchairs doesn't just mean you're off for coffee.

Tbh I think you hut have to verbalize why you need to stay on and hope for the inherent decentness of the other buggy traveler / the kindness of thr wheelchair user

Yeah I totally accept your explanation of why not 3 - it is your job afterall. But even on the new buses, the chairs fold against the wall so pushchairs is sideways on to that. Backed against front wall. If someone insists on standing in the disabled space with shopping etc you get two buggies normally facing into the folded seats but out into the aisle. On the older buses there isn't even from to get a normal sized buggy sideways, its diagonal against the fold up seats

Wheelchair user always has priority.

Did you ask him if he needed you to move? He and the child may well have preferred to just fold it without drawing attention to themselves.

I think that making a big and possibly unnecessary song and dance about moving might have embarrassed them and only been necessary for virtue signalling rather than practicality.

For example my Dad (who has MS) has a wheelchair which folds and unfolds at the touch of a button. If he feels up to it he can move himself from the chair to seat and fold it so a buggy can fit on if my Mum is there to hold it. I don't think he would really like someone drawing attention to him by insisting his empty wheelchair should have a space it didn't need.

He gets a bit shirty with people who give (often force), unwanted and unnecessary help on him to make themselves feel good. In fact one such person fused the wheelchair this weekend and broke the hoist by insisting he load it into the car for him.

My son is a wheelchair user and I would be happy that his right to that space was defended.

Actually having looked it up the wheelchair rule seems to only apply to occupied wheelchairs and not empty ones.

National Express for example has an explicit policy that unoccupied wheelchairs must be folded:

nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/Legal-2017/MicrosoftWord-DisabilityandAccessibilityJune2017.pdf

So apparently not getting off for an empty wheelchair is perfectly legal.

If it was a choice between folding it or occupying it then I would sit my son right back in it. Problem solved.

Same spikey. I very much doubt ds ever wouldn’t be in his chair (would be a nightmare) but I certainly wouldn’t faff folding it.

Unlike with a pram you don’t get a choice to pick one which is lightweight and easy to fold. Infact ds has one which weighs a ton and is a pain to fold!

Ds always needs quick access to his wheelchair/ sn buggy in public places. Not being able to see it is ready for him could trigger an aggressive meltdown. In addition everyone's safety would be comprimised whilst I am putting it back together again.

To be clear, I am not a big fan of passive aggressive. I do however recognise that drivers can't say get the fuck off my bus so trying to think of what they should be trained to do to convey the legal position that the space is for the wheelchair.
I took a bus to hospital appts, I allowed lots of time in case I couldn't get on several buses in a row. Even running late I would get off for a wheelchair user. Buggies only get the space on the buses because they adapted buses so disabled people could travel around too. I do understand that if your child in a buggy is disabled then no , you shouldn't get off. Re folding, buggies are mostly much easier to fold, they are designed to be folded several times a day. I know it's not easy for parents, I would totally think it's a hassle for me too. But nothing compared to being disabled.

You did a nice thing OP. I've had a woman try to talk down to me when I had my 3 month old DD in a pram on the bus, saying that the spaces are SOLELY for wheelchair users. Mad old bint!!

P.S. There were no wheelchair users on the bus, or other pushchairs for that matter.

I do understand that if your child in a buggy is disabled then no , you shouldn't get off
I suspect though that a parent with a disabled baby / toddler would still be expected to get off for an older child / adult in a child.

I always move / wait etc as trying to contain my mobile 2 yo who is on o2 and possibly a PEG feed even with one hand collapsing buggy whilst also carrying o2 and his two bags isn't tenable. Howe Er if I was end route to PAU or urgent care i can see where the stand off comes in if the 2nd pushchairs user won't budge also.

I always wonder if you get on 2nd but go in the non wheelchair space who ""should"" get off for the wheelchair user