Pushchair, wheelchair and the bus driver - what the hell?

[TooSmittle]

On the bus this morning, my pushchair and a pram in the wheelchair space. A couple with a child in a wheelchair got on. The child got out and walked up the bus leaving the man with nowhere to put the wheelchair without folding it.

The baby in the other pram was only 3 weeks old (mine are 3 and 1) so I said I'd get off to make space. The whole bus seemed to errupt trying to make space for us and tutting about the wheelchair. The man did say he'd fold but I didn't want to add any inconvenience to his day and hopped off.

As it happened the next bus was literally right behind and about to go round my original bus but stopped as I put my arm out. I got on explaining that a wheelchair had just got on the other bus. He said "You got off because of the wheelchair? You dont have to do that you know, you should have just stayed on."

What??? I get that asking (forcing?) pushchairs to make way for wheelchairs is probably not a bus drivers favourite task, but actively encouraging people not to move? I'm not wrong that this is crazy, am I? If I let their head office know will they do anything?

Bus drivers should just refuse to drive untill the pram person makes space. Hopefully everyone getting annoyed at them will make them think twice about refusing to make space again.

It's the driver everyone gets annoyed at. Like is happening right now. We can't win. Whatever scenario plays out, we're in fighting for our job. And we still have mortgages and dc to feed and raise. That's the thought that causes you to freeze on the spot

I don’t blame the bus drivers.

I blame the people who refuse to move. I also blame the general public who just sit back rather than standing up for the rights of the wheelchair users (in general). If the other passengers started supporting the driver and the wheelchair user then in most cases if nothing else the person with the pram would be shamed into acting.

Legally and indeed morally you did the right thing- wheelchair takes priority and you have to get off if necessary . And if I'd encountered you with my daughter in a wheelchair I'd have been very grateful to you for being considerate and moving with good grace. Before I knew how this works a lady with a buggy said " don't worry, I'll get the next one " . I nearly cried, it just made things a bit easier which was much appreciated.

Perhaps it should be classsed as a disability hate crime. Could just phone the police to remove them then.

Totally agree. But it doesn't happen. The tutting starts and then the complaints come in. I'd love more people to back us in enforcing it. But the temptation of a weeks free travel bus pass for complaining wins every time

All folding seats is a dreadful idea. Ds2 an I are both slow and unsteady on the stairs and I can't manage them with bags. I cannot stand for long and the boys can't stand at all. I end up completely crippled by the lack of support provided by folding seats and can easily fall off them.

Not all disabilities require wheels. Many of us with conditions affecting our mobility need safe, accessible seating. I rarely need the actual priority seating but the rules for that seating are quite strict in terms of making sure that someone frail can reach the seat, safely get in and out of the seat and not fall off it.

Folding a wheelchair is not as easy as folding a pushchair. They're bigger, heavier, and even folded up they take up a good chunk of space - you can't slide them under a seat or prop them against your leg.

OP, you did a good thing.

I was on the bus with my daughter when she was about 9 months old. There was already a double pushchair in the pushcair space so I went in the disabled space. The occupants of the pushchair were both about 3 and the two parents were sat in the priority seat on my side of the bus, with the children on their laps.

Half way through the journey a wheelchair wanted to get on.

First the women looked the other way to try and ignore it. The driver asked could either of the pushchairs fold down. As mine was occupied I waited for their response first.

The first answer was that there was shopping on it, the second that it didn't fold, the third that you had to take the wheel off to fold it.(I know this is true for a few) but people on the bus didn't believe what she was saying. She even tried saying when others commented that chilren weren't in it, that the children weren't supposed to sit in it while the bus was moving!

The driver tried to move it to fit both in the one space but it wouldn't work,. I felt it was safer for my wriggley dd to be strapped in instead of on my lap ( and my pushchair would have taken as much floor space folded as up) so i offered to wait for the next bus. In the end I got off, the wheelchair got on, and the driver said for us to go in the aisle ( but get off if anyone needed me too. ( it was Feb and he didn't want us waiting in the cold).

When people got off they told me not to move. When the other pushchair got off and the mother thanked me sarcastically for moving I politely told her what I thought of her. As soon as they had gone the other people on the bus had a good moan about her.

I didn't think until later I should have refused to move for her to get off until she apologised for her attitude.

As soon as dd was big enough we got a stroller so it could be folded down and carried on if needed.

Dd is now 6 and has had more thought for others than those two women for a long time. I wonder how the children treat others!

There does need to be more education regarding the law on this...

if pushchair/pram users were fully aware that they may have to fold them down on public transport, it may affect buying choices/opting for sling over buggy etc when they set off. Absolutely correct that a wheelchair user who has absolutely no choice should be disadvantaged because someone decided to bring out their massive pram.

It is difficult though as some users of buggies/pushchairs may themselves have less visible health problems or other reasons which may make public transport their only option and folding down a buggy in limited space and then trying to hold onto multiple children could be very difficult too. There would still need to be some space for folded buggies and possibly somewhere safe to put the children too?!

Assuming if someone does get off bus to make room their fare will be refunded to use on next bus?

I suspect a lot of people wouldn't be as nice as you when faced with same situation.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous yes wheelchair users have priority but not empty wheelchairs! I would have refused to move.

This baffles me perhaps because I am old enough to remember a time (only 15 years ago or less) when ALL buggies, prams and pushchairs had to be folded.

I find the entitlement of some parents incredible. It's almost comical round here when 3 or 4 of them all get on the bus at the same time, and are all jostling to fit in the space, when if they all folded their fucking massive bugaboos/ icandy whatevers there would be room for all of them with ease. I have no idea what any of them would do if a wheelchair user got on.

You done a nice thing. This came up just last week and the driver was telling a w/c user that he couldnt make the lady move/get off with her pram. If I am using the space I will either pass the baby to someone else and fold the pram or I'll get off. I can't imagine leaving a wheelchair user stuck waiting for a bus. Bus drivers will also radio to bus behind to leave space for a wheelchair.

I find the wording interesting, the 'non disabled' person in reference to the buggy user. I went from a walker prior to pregnancy to a wheelchair during (that was easy for others to fold-i couldn't) to a buggy as a walker post pregnancy that no one ever could fold, but was stable for me to walk and could easily push one handed.

I think there should be priority space either but only one reserved for wheelchairs. I found i was treated with much more respect when it was visable i had a disability aid. I sometimes take a stick on bad days not to use just to avoid arguing over why i need priority seat or similar. I doubt my experience is unusual and post pregnancy is common time for disabilities to become much worse.

How would there be room for 4 prams if they all folded them? Unless they piled them all on top of each other. I'm sorry no one is putting there pram on top of mine, and imagine the head ache trying to get your pram out from the bottom and someone just sitting there looking at you trying to get it out whilst refusing to move theirs.

Some wheelchairs can't be folded down. Sometimes it isn't safe to fold them down because the user may need access to it quickly (or be put in it quickly). The user still needs the wheelchair there to be able to travel so they still have priority.

Why did you feel the need to explain why you were getting on the second bus?

I'm assuming she explained so she could get on without paying (which she shouldn't have to pay again).

Eh?

Presumably to explain why her first ticket was valid, and avoid paying for a second ticket Dancing

Sorry that was to 00100001 not dancing

There would be room for 4 pram/ pushchairs whatever if they were folded and stood on their side. We have luggage areas on our buses. That's where we used to all put our buggies in the olden days (or 2002...)

It really beggars belief that (excepting disability where I can appreciate you may need to buy a certain type), everyone now buys massive prams they can't or won't fold.

I just find it appalling that there is so little provision / room meaning that arguably two of the groups for whom it is most difficult to get around (wheelchair users and pram users) are pitted against each other in this way!

Yes of course wheelchairs should trump but it is so sad that buggy users have to lose out. It can be so hard to get out and about with young kids - with a baby you simply can't always remove from pram. All the unemcumbered able bodieds should move instead!!

anyway you did the right thing and the other bus driver is a twat.

I would and have got off the bus with my pram for a wheelchair user before but I must admit I was really annoyed because I then had to pay again to get on the next bus .

In my city whether a wheelchair has a person in it or not anyone in the 'parking space' has to make room. Be it fold up their prams and put on the luggage carrier or get off the bus.

You did a nice thing and I'm shocked so many people would ask for a wheelchair to be folded and put away, it's a big faf for the person who needs to use it. A pram folds in 2 seconds and a child can be held for a few minutes. It's just common curtsy and respect to make way for a disabled person and their chair surely?