Old folks dying of,,,,,,old age?

[MrsDeltaB]

Whilst I appreciate there is a general outpouring of someone or the actor of a character that you may have grown up with.

Liz Dawn. Died at 77. Yes. Sad. To her family. But why the outpouring of grief to a person of elder generation who may or may not have simply died of old age?

I can't help but get cross when folks are 'gutted' 'devastated' about the death of an old person dying of, being old! "97 year old died of old age'

A life is a life. It is of no less value because someone makes an arbitrary decision based on age or any other factor.

I think you are confusing two things, and you're not listening to what others are saying. Nobodies life is worth less than anothers, but the word tragic has a particular meaning.

What's offensive about saying that the death of a 72 yr old is less tragic than the death of a 7 yr old?

Really you won't accept that?

Of course the trauma and grief on those who have lost the person will be great in whatever the situation, but there is a huge and obvious difference between a life lived and a life not lived.

I know what you mean OP. My mum died at 74 and while she was a very young and healthy 74 and had it not been for breast cancer, she would have probably gone in to her 90s.I do feel cheated at times when friends still have their mums but I also know of others who lost theirs MUCH younger than me in my 40s. But, there does seem to be a strange way of reporting deaths in the media, and in the way people react almost as though the person was going to live forever.

I'd think of a 77 year old as being middle aged

You can think of it that way if you want, but since people aren't living to 120+ you would be factually incorrect. 77 is not middle aged, it is elderly. It is, definitively, geriatric.

I don't know the circumstances of your relatives death, but I'm very sorry to hear that.

I never said a life was worthless because of age. I do still maintain that elderly people dying isn't necessarily tragic. I was incredibly upset by the death of my grandmother but I would never call it tragic. She had led a long, full life. I have a relative who died in their twenties. That was incredibly tragic.

A society that deems the deaths of only the young to be tragic is one which places a lesser value on its older members - surely in every society, the death of a young person, a child for example, is particularly awful; its a loss of a life not lived, of hope, of innocence.

A person of 77 would be valued and loved, their death would be very sad - being killed in an accident would of course be a tragedy, being murdered at any age would be an atrocity. No one is saying that person is somehow "less" but I think its disingenuous to suggest that the loss of a child would or should be viewed in the same way.

I used to think the same as the OP, e.g. why are people shocked when an old person dies, until a friend died recently who was 90. I was very upset and am still grieving, as despite her age she was very much part of our family's everyday life. I still miss her but am glad she did not have to suffer with painful illness for too long.

77 is not middle aged. I'm 46 and I think it would be pushing it to say I'm middle aged! People are doing youngish things later in life but their bodies are still ageing all the same.

My sister died when she was a teenager. Some time after she died, we lost my Grandpa. He was a wonderful man whom I adored, but I have never shed a tear for him. Perhaps that's not healthy. But to me his death was a part of the natural circle of life. He lived well and long, he died fairly peacefully and was dearly loved. What more could one wish for in life? What, really, is sad about that? I remember him at my sister's funeral, absolutely broken that she had died before him. To me, that is tragic. Not him dying.

While I recognise that people feel sadness and loss when an old person dies, I too feel uncomfortable with words such as 'tragic' being used to describe these deaths.

That's not placing less value on an older person's life. It's recognising that death is a natural part of life that comes to us all- if we're lucky, after a long and good life.

I was very sad when my DGM died at 88, but not shocked. I was very grateful for her long life and it gave me great comfort that she had lived a long and full life. It wasn't tragic, just very sad to me because I missed and still do miss her.

okthen, i do agree that someone has had a long and happy life and are older, then you should celebrate that person;s life, but also come to terms with the fact that people do die.
when its a very young person, its much harder to make sense of.
My mum was 85 and had Parkinsons, she didnt want to carry on battling this awful disease. I was upset, of course, but also pragmatic enough to know that she wouldnt have wanted to carry on living as she was at the end. Its sad, but you do have to deal with it as its part of life.

At 82, my mum is fairly sprightly and youthful, as was her mother at the same age. But DMIL, six years older, is categorically geriatric. If my ma were to go to sleep and not awake, we would all be shocked; very much less so if it were DMIL. But we would grieve for the loss of both and be saddened at the gap left behind.

However, DH had a massive cardiac at 50 and survived because he was already in an ambulance on the way to hospital. DS was then seven; that would have been a tragedy, although it wouldn't have made the news.

77 is not middle aged

No, I don't know many 154 year olds. I don't have an age I want to live to, ideally I'd want to live until I stop enjoying life and until become a burden to others. If that happens at 60 or 75 or 90, I'm not overly concerned.

Well it is, actually. It is, by any measure, pretty old. If you live to be 77 your life expectancy is another 10 years

So, on the early part of old. Not very old. Nor pretty old. Certainly not middle aged. Just old.

And this is what I was looking for earlier. A death rate according to age.
So, even though the death rate increases in the 70s, it is still much lower than in the 80s and above.

And yes, I would expect most people in their 70s to live at least another 10 years, and wouldn't think that it was a natural (of old age) death.

Forgot the graph

I honestly think quality of life is more important.

Gawd, none of you is a nerd like me. Check out Wikipedia on "old age":

Most developed-world countries have accepted the chronological age of 65 years as a definition of 'elderly' or older person. The United Nations has agreed that 60+ years may be usually denoted as old age[9] and this is the first attempt at an international definition of old age.

and

some gerontologists have recognized the diversity of old age by defining sub-groups. One study distinguishes the young old (60 to 69), the middle old (70 to 79), and the very old (80+).[18] Another study's sub-grouping is young-old (65 to 74), middle-old (75–84), and oldest-old (85+).[19] A third sub-grouping is "young old" (65–74), "old" (74–84), and "old-old" (85+).

Even before checking "the Bible" I would have said over 60 is old (and I'm in my early 50s). Age is a fact, not a state of mind -- or a state of health: you can be old and very fit and active, or young and very unfit and unwell. But there is simply no way 77 isn't old. I think those of you who say that are (whisper it) in denial about your own aging.

My dad died at 72. It was expected as it was cancer but without that who knows what age he could have lived to. Both his parents died in their 90's.

His death was a shock to me and I'm still not over it two years on. I never wanted him to die and the hole he has left in my life is massive.

I'm afraid I can't just switch off the sadness for the death of people past 70. My Grandad is 95, my Mom is 75, Step mom 64 and the thought of any of them dying is just unbearable (not so much my Mom but that's a whole other thread!)

My dad has gone from an extremely active 77, public life, community service etc, to a frail 78.

I think later life can change very fast.

Standandwait
Ahem, true nerds don't check Wikipedia. That's for the general population. Nerds check the sources. You know, those references quoted on Wikipedia.

Lweji you are after my own heart. But I didna think everyone would want to hear about all the other sites (and books!) I checked. Whydya think my post is so far down?

picklemepopcorn

That happened with my dad. It turned out he had a hidden cancer. I hope your dad lasts longer.

(although I agree with a pp in that quality of life is important)

I met the lovely Liz Dawn in the mid eighties. She was opening a charity carnival event in a large local field and I was doing the 'celebrity hospitality' in a small caravan. First thing she said to me was "ya look knackered chuck - come and have a sit down and a drink", so we supped G & T half the afternoon, and scoffed the sausage rolls. She was a really nice, genuine woman (although she was slightly pissed when she came to draw the raffle!).
RIP Liz - you were a one off.
Oh, and 77 isn't old, just nicely aged like a fine wine.