aibu to love this blog post about why formula feeding is brilliant?!

[girlwithasecretsmile]

I think it's great to have a post talking about good things about formula for once but part of me feels bad for laughing so much.

passmethebottleblog.wordpress.com/

There's information and misinformation about both forms if feeding, just as with all of pregnancy and parenting. I was nearly put off having children by people constantly mentioning how difficult it is, and how hard newborns are, that you never sleep again etc. I'm glad I didn't take it to hard, because my newborn is easier than I could have ever imagined(I'm currently having a lazy bubble bath during morning nap and she only wakes once a night at the moment). I'm actually rested, for the first time in about a decade. But if I'd listened to people I wouldn't have even gotten pregnant.

But that's not to say that parenting is easy, but that so far, parenting my child has been easy. But, I'd I hadn't met many other parents who have more high maintenence babies, I might have wondered what all the fuss was about...

Not all breastfeeding is difficult and painful, not all formula feeding is faffy and time consuming. One person's impossible is another person's difficult, or manageable or even easy.

One (of the many) reasons I didn't want to breastfeed was because of the pain. As it was, it was pretty much painless, so it's not painful for everyone. I didn't know that before though. Because it was only one of many reasons, for me, it wouldn't have changed my mind, but I do think it's important to be honest about when it's difficult and when it's easy, so that people get the full picture.

The 'if it hurts you're doing it wrong' crowd is as harmful as 'yes it really, really hurts' crowd. A more sensible approach would be that sometimes it's painless sometimes it hurts, and sometimes it hurts because there's something wrong, but not always.

"The hole is the goal" that's my husband's mantra

"Bert, do you reckon it was just not talked about, women had a hideous time feeding, babies lost weight, result: formula?"

I don't know, Jassy- it really puzzles me. I was an older mother with a wide circle of opinionated educated mother friends treating motherhood as if it was their next career and I can't ever remember it being mentioned.

Does anyone know whether the countries with high bf rates take tongue tie more seriously than the U.K. does?

Fair enough nerf and Bert. Although I stand by my tone problem.

I do agree that when it works, bf is easier. Even after I officially stopped with dd, because she was easy to feed, I did give her the odd first thing in morning feed for a while as it was so much easier than leaping out of bed and faffinf with bottles. It wouldn't fill her (damn surgery) but I was at least a little awake before I had to get up and sort bottles.

The support is weird. I saw one bf woman who spent 10 minutes telling me my surgery wasn't a problem and I just had to try harder. 5 minutes later she was telling me her daughter wanted surgery but she had told her to wait until after babies!!

The US (my area at least) take tongue tie very seriously. Everyone I've known have it with a child it's been spotted in the first few days.

My midwife actually put ds on my boob the first few times. Physically showed me how to shape my boob to put in his mouth. And came back the next day then the next week for six weeks. When I got a tear through a bad latch she showed me other ways to hold him. She ordered lanolin in my birthing supplies pack and brought in lactation bites she'd baked the next day (don't know if they work really but maybe as a sugar pill type thing.)

I find women here more supportive and more forward. I've helped total strangers I've seen struggling with a latch or spotting a bad latch in public, others I know do the same.

In my State in 2011 49% of 6 month olds were breastfeed and 23% at a year old. I'm sure the numbers have climbed dramatically since then. I know of only two women who used formula.

In the UK only 1% of babies are ebf (as advised by WHO and many other countries health authorities. This shocks me so much.

I think it’s really important for society as a whole to address several issues; support women who do want to bf with actual practical help - meals, time, latching support. This would be expensive but it’s what makes other countries stats higher as there is more external support. Also interesting to find out how many women who stopped say they wished they’d carried on because of pressure and guilt to say so? I know I told people I wished I’d continued but actually I was bloody relieved and happy to stop, I just didn’t feel like I could say that so I put on a sad face and pretended I was chastising myself.
We also need to support women who choose to ff from the off. Instead of making them feel crap, we need honest advice from the get go. Benefits of bf have been widely over exaggerated, it’s not a problem to enjoy it for the ease, cost, freedom etc but using minuscule stats to try and make ppl feel better/bad about their choices gets you nowhere and creates this anger between camps. Bf is great but the links to its benefits are widely discredited, marginal at best and pushing them doesn’t help raise stats.
Ff/bf makes up some a small amount of time that it’s hilarious we debate it so ferociously. The fact that the WHO recommend bf ON A GLOBAL LEVEL is also important to acknowledge. In countries without access to clean water, sterilising equipment not bf can kill. That isn’t the same as saying formula is bad: just that the correct ways to prepare it can’t be adhered to and so the risks are contextual. Studies have said that when formula is prepared correctly, as directed and given when demanded, there is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL between bf and ff babies. The WHO recommend bf on a global level because the risks of contaminated water, parents bulking out formula with ash, coffee or sugar water as they can’t afford the directed amount and rationing feeds was harmful, NOT THE FORMULA ITSELF.

As I understand it, Formula, even when correctly made up, can increase risks such as those from infection purely because of the nature of the milk as opposed to human milk. Underplaying the benefits of bf (or the risks of ff) contributes to the low numbers of bf babies imo

Again, it would be lovely to have data and sources when people are throwing around big claims (from all angles).

UNICEF published quite a bit of information as part of the Baby friendly initiative and most of the studies can be found at www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/News-and-Research/Research

And some of the neonatal unit stuff comes up in Meier's work www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pic/articles/PMC2859690

None of the UNICEF-linked sources (UNICEF doesn't provide direct sources itself) look specifically at the UK, unless some of the non-open source Lancet articles do.

I can't see anything there about infection risk from properly-made up formula?

Equally, while studies there demonstrate no association between FF mad BF in some areas, they indicate correlations in others - albeit not in a British context, so it would be great to get links to the studies nodogs is talking about.

Decent science gets so misrepresented in these discussions and i honestly don't know what's reliable any more - which is why it would be good to have sources, as well as quantification around ideas like 'much better' etc.

I know I sound like an arse. But talking at cross purposes around the evidence base doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.

Having spent a long time actually reading the research I disagree with nodogs assertion that the benefits are minimal.
It's this minimisation which is often an attempt to pretend that both methods of feeding are just as good.

As for using bottles, some houses have "hygiene issues" and it's not uncommon to water down the formula to make it last longer. When we talk about these things on a population level, it's say to say we have clean water in the uk, and you know you wouldn't use a less than clean bottle, but sadly that's not the case for everyone.
That has to be taken into account.

But no one really cares if you ff, or BF.

jassy
Properly made up formula is a good goal, but in reality it doesn't work like that in many cases. I once went in a house that had chickens in the living room. Shit all over the floor. They certainly didn't clean anything! It's hard to imagine but very true.

This 'debate' makes me so cross. Breastfeeding is not best for everyone. Formula Feeding is not best for everyone. For every mum who is inconvenienced by BF with awkward tops/bras etc there's a formula mum inconvenienced by having to take sterile hot water and bottles out and about. Neither option is always 'easy' - being a new mum can be tough and putting up with judgy comments on either side makes things feel worse.

Fed well, whichever way, IS best for baby. No one needs to be so defensive, people shouldn't bloody comment. Why can't anyone accept, that as with most things in life, different things work for different people. I mix fed my DD in the end after a traumatic birth and feeding difficulties (PPH, late milk, silent reflux, etc etc). Expressed for six months (I was lucky I had a good supply) and topped up with formula before moving to formula only after 6 months when I could do longer manage pumping 6x a day. It worked for us, and that's all that matters.

I have a mixed group of friends who have done either or done both. Fortunately we're all pleasant enough people to be able to discuss feeding and any difficulties we've had with either method without sneering, or judging, or making anyone feel bad about their choices. There's no divide between us, and that's the way it should be! One of our BF mums was struggling horribly with cracked nipples and thrush the other week and having a proper moan - not one person told her she was wasting her time, that it was 'weird' that she was still BF (her baby 8m) or that FF was better/easier. We all piled in with tea, sympathy and decent advice. Similarly, when I was struggling to BF and starting to introduce formula and the pumping, not one of them made me feel bad about it - just told me not to stress, offered recommendations on formulas/pumps/teat flows etc (I had no clue!)

We need more mums to cheer each other on, help each other realise that it's a tough gig and that we're all just doing our best. Let's save the venom for the neglectful and parents who don't bother to feed their kids at all, hey?

@Headofthehive55 what are the actual proven benefits?

There is a vast array of evidence-based literature about the benefits of bf. One literature review gives quite a succinct argument in support: www.jpnim.com/index.php/jpnim/article/download/010113/18

I was quite surprised by some of the evidence. Reduced hospital admissions, reduced gut and chest infections, and by significant percentages, 50 or 60%.

The benefits of sterile milk - which is not guaranteed with formula.
The benefits preventing NEC
The benefits to the mother in lowering risk of breast cancer.
The risk even of dying from breast cancer is lower should you get it if you breastfed.
Immune benefits.

Even if these benefits are tiny, they are still there. You said yourself, a 4% decrease. I'll take that!

And it costs less? Is that not a proven benefit?

Some of the benefits are not tiny though. Reduction in adolescent and adult obesity by 15-30%. Reduction in some childhood leukaemias by 15-20%. These are huge numbers when you apply them to thousands of babies.

Properly made up formula is a good goal, but in reality it doesn't work like that in many cases. I once went in a house that had chickens in the living room. Shit all over the floor. They certainly didn't clean anything! It's hard to imagine but very true.

Head, I don't know why this was directed to me?

Are these benefits known about? Do you see posters in doctor's waiting rooms with the numbers? Genuine question.

I'm sure most people know that bf is optimum, but are the benefits communicated appropriately by HCPs? I don't really remember any MWs or doctors telling me this.

If you read that study and the corresponding studies the data is from the majority say MAY. In addition, the individual studies say that they can’t isolate bf as a factor as it is often in conjunction with others; parental income and education, home, method of birth delivery.
The obesity thing - The only high-quality randomized controlled trial of breast-feeding did not show any impacts on childhood obesity.
Other health issues; again, the only controlled study - the evidence suggests that breastfeeding may slightly decrease your infant’s chance of diarrhea and eczema but will not change the rate at which he gets colds or ear infections and will not prevent death.

Child development and behaviour? The PROBIT randomized trial is again the best source. The researchers analyzed the impacts of breastfeeding on allergies and asthma; on cavities; and on height, blood pressure, weight and various measures of obesity. They found no evidence of nursing’s impacts on any of these outcomes. They also found no evidence of impacts on child behavior issues, emotional problems, peer issues, hyperactivity or maternal-child connection.

DrK - I too had one wonderful nurse who sorted out bf for me and DS.

He was prem and although no-one directly said it, they preferred ff because they could measure how much milk he was getting at every feed and were generally lukewarm about me bf. I was on SCBU one night struggling with his tiny little mouth and June showed me how to hold him and how to get a good latch. If it wasn't for her, I'm pretty certain that I would have given up, instead of going on to ebf for 6+ months.

Well I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I'm quite comfortable reading and interpreting evidence. There is lots of speculation, but plenty of fact.

Saying ‘may’ does not mean ‘does’

We want bf to be more beneficial than it is to justify the effort and pain and time. All I’m saying is, I’ve read the paper you sent and the corresponding studies each point gathered it’s data from. Once you do that, it becomes clear that no benefit can be attributed solely to bf as we can not isolate it from other factors. The people more likely to bf are white, middle class and educated. Those people tend to be invested in maintaining healthy weights, adopting healthy lifestyles, promoting education and extra curricular activities. Those things HAVE been shown to have influence on a persons health.
I’m really not trying to argue, I bf one of my children. I’m just pointing out that the benefits have been hugely discredited and the statistics, once other variables have been eliminated become marginal at best.